I haven't noticed a decline in activity, but there was never that much activity in the first place to my knowledge.When i first joined the community (and that was 3 years ago), there were at least 2 new Knytt Stories levels every day.
I am a long time fan of Knytt and KS, and I feel that those games gave me some of the best experiences I have had with video games. Now, a week ago I have discovered the great fun one can also have making ones own levels. I am sure there are other newcomers, who discover the games and/or the editor at this time, so long after the initial releases, and have fun doing so. I think there are definitely a demand for SIMPLE game editors, and KS editor may be one of the simplest and easiest ones around.
If one should mention a problem, it is maybe that the editor is so firmly linked to almost exclusively making levels that in some way expand the original story and puzzles. It would be fantastic to have a new version of the editor, that made wider customizations possible (easy!), so one could make not only Knytt Story Levels but all kinds of new games build on the same basic idea that made Knytt and KS so great.
Other forums are usually afflicted with trolls, spammers and annoying people.
I am a long time fan of Knytt and KS, and I feel that those games gave me some of the best experiences I have had with video games. Now, a week ago I have discovered the great fun one can also have making ones own levels. I am sure there are other newcomers, who discover the games and/or the editor at this time, so long after the initial releases, and have fun doing so. I think there are definitely a demand for SIMPLE game editors, and KS editor may be one of the simplest and easiest ones around.
If one should mention a problem, it is maybe that the editor is so firmly linked to almost exclusively making levels that in some way expand the original story and puzzles. It would be fantastic to have a new version of the editor, that made wider customizations possible (easy!), so one could make not only Knytt Story Levels but all kinds of new games build on the same basic idea that made Knytt and KS so great.
An editor that creates new games that look somewhat like Knytt and Knytt Stories? That's called Multimedia Fusion 2. Nifflas used it to make his games
I am a long time fan of Knytt and KS, and I feel that those games gave me some of the best experiences I have had with video games. Now, a week ago I have discovered the great fun one can also have making ones own levels. I am sure there are other newcomers, who discover the games and/or the editor at this time, so long after the initial releases, and have fun doing so. I think there are definitely a demand for SIMPLE game editors, and KS editor may be one of the simplest and easiest ones around.
If one should mention a problem, it is maybe that the editor is so firmly linked to almost exclusively making levels that in some way expand the original story and puzzles. It would be fantastic to have a new version of the editor, that made wider customizations possible (easy!), so one could make not only Knytt Story Levels but all kinds of new games build on the same basic idea that made Knytt and KS so great.
An editor that creates new games that look somewhat like Knytt and Knytt Stories? That's called Multimedia Fusion 2. Nifflas used it to make his games
Anyway, this isn't helping me right now. I need to focus on what I need to focus on. If my inspiration is currently elsewhere and I don't right now want to create a new KS-like game with a full featured editor, there's no way I'm going to be able to do it in a successful way. I'm interested in expressing something through the games, not to create a perfect market oriented game/editor combo that'll result in good sales. I sort of try to make game development be what it was before the success of Knytt Stories, back when people didn't have much expections. In the end, that'll result in games that are more personal to me. I see everything in a long perspective, there'll be ups and downs, some releases will be popular while other games won't be. Even the community will get smaller and larger. I'm not keeping track of wether it right now is getting smaller or bigger, but I'm not bothered about it. If I were, the pressure would force me to create something I don't want to.
people with Swedish accents and awesome beards..
Nope, sorry :P
Unless you're a female, in that case, you still can become awesome by moving to Sweden and making an indie game without having to grow a beard
lol it think its funny that it keeps on going back to ks.
It isn't dead in my opinion but it is definitely dying.:sad:
The only real problem I see with our tight-knytt community is that it constantly has to deal with groan-inducing puns that don't even work if you use the correct pronunciation of the title of the game.
On another note, is Nifflas currently working on anything?Two or three things, actually. ;)
However, the potential to create the next game editing revolution is HERE - a new Saira editor. A few changes I would suggest:
- Re-design the Saira game editor to resemble the KS editor. The KS editor is incredibly awesome for 2d gaming. Don't abandon it.
- Remove/Block the MMF2 components from the Saira editor (for now). It just seems too easy to put a virus payload into the game. Also, most people don't have a license for MMF2 anyway.
- The community needs to make some basic tilesets/BG/sprites to go out with a new editor. I understand why Nifflas would not want to share his art. But starting from scratch is also daunting - lower the entry barrier by providing a few basic tilesets.
This new Saira editor could revolutionize the game editing community and continue the incredible KS tradition.
Seriously, the forum mods and admins need to take notice. If long time fans of nifflas are leaving, there's a serious problem with this forum. The mods are so scared of change. If there is a problem, there is usually also a solution. And if you mods say that you have been noticing, than why aren't you doing anything? It won't fix itself, you know.Change what? Fix what?
Posting rate in the NightSky and KnyttWaDF boards is crazy, this place is FAR from dead.You're kidding me, It is more than normal but defiantly not crazy
I see everything in a long perspective, there'll be ups and downs, some releases will be popular while other games won't be. Even the community will get smaller and larger. I'm not keeping track of wether it right now is getting smaller or bigger, but I'm not bothered about it.
Creating seemed to be the second major part of the forum besides dicussing Nifflas's games.
I do think there's a good ammount of levels made by level designers for level designers; levels that are so thouroughly enthralled in exploring both the mechanics of the game and the most demanding playing skills that they end up as appealing to people who know the game inside out and hardly anyone else.
I don't know what SMF is capable of, but the landing page should have a prominent feed telling what's popular on the forum, posts Nifflas starts, and important messages from the mods.
On the threads topic, the temporary level release threads are a problem. There are a lot of unanswered questions as to what will happen when the new archive arrives. Will they be made unavailable like the old forum? Will they be locked? Where and how will we discuss 3rd party levels after their releases?
...these forums will be removed once the archive is ready. So, no locking and such. Level discussions will happen at the archive, in the form of reviews and comments for each level.
- Tilesets/custom objects/backgrounds etc. These used have their own separate forum way back then. Now they're unofficially posted in Dev Showcase, mixed with other non-Nifflas stuff. We could bring these back to their own forum and with the increased visibility hopefully comes more activity. What do you think?
- Assets for Knytt-WADF; user-made stuff for Nifflas' upcoming game. Right now they're uploaded directly to Nifflas outside the forum, so this activity is 'untapped', invisible to the community. If it gets its own place here in addition, it could bring about more ways you could participate (eg. helping others isolating objects, giving and receiving feedback, etc.)
The first two questions are already answered in the temp forum descriptions: these forums will be removed once the archive is ready. So, no locking and such.Actually, locking is the only possible solution. The threads in these forums can't be deleted, because they don't only contain useful discussions, but also links to levels on file sharing sites.
But without a place for the community to lounge back and just be a communityI'm pretty sure this forum is supposed to be about Nifflas' games, not the community.
If the problem is diversion of activity from Nifflas-related boards to the general chatter section, then this is not the case. If anything, an off-topic section would entice users to stay after getting bored of the Niff's games.
And I'm pretty sure this forum (http://www.ganggarrison.com/forums/index.php) is completely about Gang Garrison. Oh, what's this? An off-topic section in a video-game related forum? Preposterous! Surely a forum of this nature cannot support a general chatter section!But without a place for the community to lounge back and just be a communityI'm pretty sure this forum is supposed to be about Nifflas' games, not the community.
If the problem is diversion of activity from Nifflas-related boards to the general chatter section, then this is not the case. If anything, an off-topic section would entice users to stay after getting bored of the Niff's games. Perhaps they might become interested in the games again.
I'm pretty sure this forum is supposed to be about Nifflas' games, not the community.Well a forum is made up of its community so its arguably more important than its content.
...all the boards are Nifflas-related and unless you count Forum Games there isn't any off-topic discussion.the "Other Free Games" board isn't Nifflas related.
I'd first think about a board for general games discussion. It's very good to have a forum for free games list, but it's very very weird not to have a forum where commercial games can be discussed.The point of not having that forum is because it'd be advertising. At least, that's what the people who came with that conclusion thought. In my honest opinion, this is the same; you're advertising the maker of the games, which might make them money. For an example, look at Nifflas. In a different forum with this same "Other Free Games" board, someone might put up Knytt, WaDF, or Knytt Stories, as they are free. People will look at them, and then possible buy NightSky or Saira, and thus that counts as advertising for Nifflas.
It is not about whether or not the forum can "support" a general discussion section. The point is that general discussion is not desired by the administration. Whether it would be detrimental to the rest of the forum is largely irrelevant at the moment.And I'm pretty sure this forum (http://www.ganggarrison.com/forums/index.php) is completely about Gang Garrison. Oh, what's this? An off-topic section in a video-game related forum? Preposterous! Surely a forum of this nature cannot support a general chatter section!But without a place for the community to lounge back and just be a communityI'm pretty sure this forum is supposed to be about Nifflas' games, not the community.
Also, the non-Nifflas-related discussion that's occuring right now is split into four groups: people whining about the forum or its members, people asking for help with something, "show and tell" (dev. showcase and free games), and forum games. You say that you have something to say that won't fit in those forums, so maybe you can tell us what it is.Maybe an introduction forum, where you can talk about yourself, and greet new members. Makes the new members feel more like part of the community. Actually, that's all I can think about atm. :\
People already post introductions in this forum, and those all get locked.Really? More of a reason to actually have a forum for it. Also, for what reason are they locked?
Also, for what reason are they locked?
We indeed started to lock these topics because these topics basically have no other purpose than to be informative.
I'd say that this is a similar case to threads announcing someone's leaving or return: I'll lock it, because there is not much to discuss really.
I think advertising a good game is a good thing, no matter free or commercial. However, most people play commercial games more and there's usually more to discuss with them, so that board would get more discussion-oriented.I'd first think about a board for general games discussion. It's very good to have a forum for free games list, but it's very very weird not to have a forum where commercial games can be discussed.The point of not having that forum is because it'd be advertising. At least, that's what the people who came with that conclusion thought.
...so that board would get more discussion-oriented.It would also get more flaming, "Oh-My-God-You-Suck", and a lot more modding needed. Just saying.
I wish it would work that way, but we've had this 'perhaps' assumption before, and we all saw where it lead in the past. Referencing another forum doesn't help either, because this place is not about "keeping up with the Joneses", especially if they have the exact same problem we had. Out of their 16 boards, the last 3 off-topic boards attract 40%(!) of their total forum activity. And that's not even the worst ratio I've seen.Percentages mean nothing. Just because a lot of the activity is in off-topic boards doesn't mean there's still a thriving community within the game discussion. In fact, I frequent both on-topic and off-topic sections on the GG2 forums. Having an off-topic boards does not automatically guarantee a loss of interest in other parts of the community. And because you claim that forum should not be an example as it is way more active than ours, then look at this forum. (http://www.unitedti.org/forum/index.php?act=idx) The community is in a similar state- in fact, even slower than ours. Yet they continue to support both Calculator and off-topic discussion. Why is this? Because general chatter sections do not shift overall community activity.
Actually, I'm not adamantly against an off-topic subforum as a general idea. it's just that it requires a certain common mindset and maturity among the userbase to make it worthwhile...which has not been proven to exist in abundance in this special community. Excuse the condescendence, but I really don't know what kind of "communtiy-vital" talk you want to hold in an offtopic board anyways...but maybe that's just me.
and really, yeah sure, we could make an offtopic board to prove that we aren't "afraid", and would probably again find the proof that it really does not work with these folks of this forum. but then again, we're the staff, so we make decisions, not court orders that have to have ultimate proof and justification and convince every single affected person.
It is not about whether or not the forum can "support" a general discussion section. The point is that general discussion is not desired by the administration. Whether it would be detrimental to the rest of the forum is largely irrelevant at the moment.How is beneficialness largely irrelevant? It's what the administration is using as their reasoning for not including an off-topic section, and it's what I'm trying to prove.
Also, the non-Nifflas-related discussion that's occuring right now is split into four groups: people whining about the forum or its members, people asking for help with something, "show and tell" (dev. showcase and free games), and forum games. You say that you have something to say that won't fit in those forums, so maybe you can tell us what it is.
And holy crap, sarcasm is against the rules?
Is this statement backed by fact, or is it baseless conjecture?...so that board would get more discussion-oriented.It would also get more flaming, "Oh-My-God-You-Suck", and a lot more modding needed. Just saying.
How is beneficialness largely irrelevant? It's what the administration is using as their reasoning for not including an off-topic section, and it's what I'm trying to prove.My interpretation of the admins' statements is that general discussion does not belong on the forum. Sort of like putting a pinball machine in an art museum; it may draw more people to the museum, or it may distract people from the art, but either way it has nothing to do with the art museum.
Also, other topics: Discuss movies. Discuss music. Discuss food. Discuss programming. Discuss TV shows. Discuss Superbowl ads. Tech support thread. Discuss relationships. Discuss current events. Discuss weather. Discuss educational institutes. General introduction thread. The list goes on.I meant tell us something you would post there. (If that applies to all the above, never mind.)
Is this statement backed by fact, or is it baseless conjecture?...so that board would get more discussion-oriented.It would also get more flaming, "Oh-My-God-You-Suck", and a lot more modding needed. Just saying.
I think the only real way to revive the forum is for nifflas to release a popular new game like it once did with knytt and wadf. (the way I see it, nightsky is nowhere as popular as knytt). I am for trying the idea and seeing if it really does happen, though. It really sucks because every time I look at the "users online" at the bottom of the page I'm the only one...
Personally, I prefer the community the way it is now. It's sleepy and laid back, and I come to this forum when I want to relax and not have to deal with internet morons on other, more active forums. Adding an off-topic board would most likely just bring that over here.Isn't that kinda selfish, because its agreed that "more activity = better forum". And the only way to have more activity is to get more members to join and post topics, etc.
Isn't that kinda selfish, because its agreed that "more activity = better forum".
Maybe would be nice to have an introduction thread?
...its agreed that "more activity = better forum".Sorry, I don't agree. :P
I also want to add that Niffchat is no substitute for a offtopic board because nobody goes on it nowadays.Could it be because everyone seems to have that attitude? <_<
...but one has to admit that for a chatroom, it is even less chatty then here!. I also can't imagine many people joining or leaving going to the chatroom that is pretty bare for more than a few minutes before (reasonably) deciding it isn't going to spark to life.If people only decided to hang around even if there's no activity going on at the moment... It would build up and stuff would actually happen. Also, I can't really see how people join a chat and expect any chatting to happen without any effort put into it on their parts. It's unlikely for anyone to respond to you if you say nothing!
So....in basic terms... I'd either really like to see the chatroom take up more use for what the forum isn't for or have some offtopic-ness allowed. I think the mods would agree (and I do too!) that maybe getting #niffchat back on track would help the forum more than offtopic posts.That's what it's there for. But nothing'll happen if everyone just thinks nobody else goes there and doesn't bother to even pop by. :P
So, how possible would it be to try to encourage people to go to #niffchat instead of just locking it? I know that seems purpose-less because there isn't much to go to at the moment, but do it enough, and maybe people will check more often, thus making -that- more active, which will maybe solve some of the pleas for offtopic posts.Sounds like an idea. I shall be adding that into 'em lock messages, though I'm rarely the first one to catch 'em.
So, how possible would it be to try to encourage people to go to #niffchat instead of just locking it? I know that seems purpose-less because there isn't much to go to at the moment, but do it enough, and maybe people will check more often, thus making -that- more active, which will maybe solve some of the pleas for offtopic posts.Sounds like an idea. I shall be adding that into 'em lock messages, though I'm rarely the first one to catch 'em.
Isn't that kinda selfish
because its agreed that "more activity = better forum".
As for the n00b thing and posting stupid things; give them a break, everybody was one once (I'm probably in the minority when I say I don't mind n00bs that much, though).
yeah, I admit I was kinda looking at a biased point of view, but to be honest I don't know why anyone would want a quiet, slow forum, and otherwise low-activity forum...
Personally, I prefer the community the way it is now. It's sleepy and laid back, and I come to this forum when I want to relax and not have to deal with internet morons on other, more active forums.
I've been day dreaming of an ultimate game maker for a long time now that I would like to simply call Stories, in honor of KS, but without being chained to the idea of little people. I know it would be programming intensive, but the idea would be to have a main shell that runs something like the KS editor, only the game maker has the option of varying almost all the constants, like size of play screen, size of character, size and resolution of tile sets and objects, etc. Then, to the main shell would be the ability to add scripts or apps that any programmer could make which add extra characteristics to the game like new power ups, enemies, effects, etc. If this where done right, you could have a basic game shell from which almost any type of game could be easily made simply by editing the right constants and adding the right scripts. IMHO, this would be a magnet for people who are just dying for the opportunity to create there own game, but don't have the expertise. Ahem, people like me. And with the game makers come the game players and excessive forum activity. So, if you build it, they will come.
This brings up another point: Adding an off-topic board is by no means guaranteed to attract more users. It may keep them here (and as I said above, the way it does that may invite other problems), but there is nothing to suggest that adding an off-topic board will cause an influx of members. It's not like people join normally forums specifically to chat in the off-topic board, after all; they usually join them to talk about the thing(s) the forum is centered around, and only after that do they head to the off-topic board.anyways, like I said before : the only legitimate way to gain members is for nifflas to release a successful game. I wasn't around that time, but I imagine when nifflas released wadf and/or ks a huge amount of members came.
But if you want a game with a more flexible level editor, then you'll get something like FiNCK, and you'll notice that the level editing becomes harder. It is either easy aka Knytt Stories but limited, or hard aka Saira and more flexible. There's no in between.
So I don't know why it's controversial whether to have one more subforum like that, when there are already so many.I kinda agree, but it would be nice to have an introduction/good bye subforum. And that's all of this pointless reply.
I kinda agree, but it would be nice to have an introduction/good bye subforum. And that's all of this pointless reply.
I'd come here a little more often if there was an Off-Topic board...qft :sten:
<.<I bet many people would come ONLY if there were an off-topic board. It used to be a no for this subject, and guess what... it still is.
>.>
I'd come here a little more often if there was an Off-Topic board...
*ninja-poofs out*
One of the things that makes this forum different from most others :)<.<I bet many people would come ONLY if there were an off-topic board. It used to be a no for this subject, and guess what... it still is.
>.>
I'd come here a little more often if there was an Off-Topic board...
*ninja-poofs out*
I like that,I'm really hoping you're being sarcastic. How in the world would not posting strengthen the community? I'm really not seeing it, it seems like you are just being overly optimistic about the matter.
Inactivity is our strength!
:D
rest assured that we consider your suggestions and discuss ways to implement them in a success-promising way....
Not feeling the need to constantly prove ourselves to each other because we are confident with our current relationships and feel certain that they can remain strong even in silence shows strength as a community.
I think a comfortable silence is one of the strongest connections people can have with each other. :)
I don't mean silence really, just not feeling obligated to speak because you are already confident enough in the relationship. That doesn't mean you can't speak or that you shouldn't, just that periods of silence can be justified.Not feeling the need to constantly prove ourselves to each other because we are confident with our current relationships and feel certain that they can remain strong even in silence shows strength as a community.
I think a comfortable silence is one of the strongest connections people can have with each other. :)
I disagree. Unless you mean of an unspoken band, in which case I do agree. If people stop communicating, they distantiate from each other. When they've grown too much apart, they separate.
This community is not silent. The fact that every day that I check there are at least 6 new posts, proves that. True, it has been busier here, but people have lives outside the forum too. And as time goes faster every day (google this if you don't know what I mean) its not surprising that people have to prioritize more.
... For some people, school has come by back in september (Myself included), meaning the activity in this forum took a big dive here. Some level production is taking a halt because of this. Maybe the activity will go to the upside during christmas break but after that, the decline will start again.In a forum with such a strict theme (nifflas' games), and with the lack of a section for unrelated stuff (which I agree with), it is obvious that there will only be a lot of activity when there is something new related to the games, such as new releases or new information about coming releases. The rest of the activity should come from user made stuff (custom levels, mods, etc), and the interest in that is expected to after the game has been released for a long time without updates. Lately, it's been slow on official updates, information or releases, so I think the lack of activity is perfectly unrestandable.
I find that lately, The forum's activity is close to none and it is sad to see this happen...
..., so they don't stick around unless they are emotionally attached to the community.
Religion vs Atheism??? Why you... I'm offended!Are you seriously offended that easily? Nothing was said promoting one side or the other nor was there any hate, give me a break... <_<
I really don't understand why there isn't one yet.I think it's because the administration here is resistant to change/trying (well most people are, to be fair).
Trying never is a bad thing. It allows you to learn.
A debates forum is the alternative that we've had. Basically its a form of general chatter, but much more organized. We had this before, and it did work, but discussions went in circles, and people just started to post to keep a discussion alive. When I asked for new discussions ideas, nothing really shown up. I'm not going to invest time into something that people just want, but aren't going to use.A debate is quite different from discussion, and I don't think it will really have any long-term affects on people coming to this forum, like the arcade. I mean it might be popular at first, but people just get tired of talking about the same subject and it tends to go into circles, like you said.
We have tried it in the past, and it attracted the wrong kind of people. People were lurking only in the general chatter section, and they chatted about absolutely nothing. Thats a serious waste of forum space. They just posted because they were bored. The staff stopped looking in that section even, and worse, Nifflas games weren't discussed anymore (posting a challenge, etc). Not to mention, that questions about Nifflas' games started to take place there too (eg: help, am stuck to get the 3rd ball in WaDF).A general chatter section destroyed the forum? I wasn't around at the time, but that sounds kind of strange since most of the other forums that I go to are doing fine with a GD and Offtopic section. The forums based on games also maintain focus on the actual game. I'll take your word for it though, since I wasn't there. As for nifflas' games not being discussed, they aren't really being discussed now either, with the exception of KS. Anyways, now I realize that this forum is structured a little differently (there is really an emphasis on nifflas' games), and discussing about it isn't going to change anybody's mind.
For some strange reason, whenever you have a general chatter section, people automatically assume that whatever question they have cannot be discussed elsewhere. So a general chatter section is out of the question. It nearly destroyed this forum once, and I'm not going to let that happen again.
A general chatter section destroyed the forum? I wasn't around at the time, but that sounds kind of strange since most of the other forums that I go to are doing fine with a GD and Offtopic sectionBasically what happened at that point was this:
we can always disable the off-topic forum again.You honestly don't consider me to put something on with the idea that I'll remove it again when things go out of hand again?
Why no shoutbox?We used to have one. Basically its the same with a shoutbox as the off-topic forum. Although this one is easier to manage, it does get the same idea with the off-topic forum. Not to mention that we still have an IRC chat.
You honestly don't consider me to put something on with the idea that I'll remove it again when things go out of hand again?I do expect it to work properly, as long as it's either well-moderated or the activity level is relatively low. I was just saying if it DOES get out of hand you can shut it down.
Seriously, thats not how a forum works. If I'd enable a feature and disable it everytime things get out of hand, we'd have a really messy forum.
You can only add functionality when you expect it to work properly. Its the first thing you learn when doing management. Otherwise people will not take you seriously.
So the only way for us to have a feature is when I can ensure that the staff actually manages that feature.I think that should be a priority then.
I was never banned from shoutbox :huh:My bad, I confused you with someone else. I looked back at my history and indeed didn't find a mention of you being banned under any of the aliases you use/used.
And if we enable something with the idea that our members are mature enough to use the report to moderator feature, we'd be a really bad forum. The report to moderator function is only to assist us, not to manage a forum with.I quite disagree. Usually on (bigger) forums staff is not expected or required to read everything all the time, since that'd be impossible anyways.
Finally, I was thinking... what if there was something like a secret forum you have to get invited into? Once someone is on the forum with 10 or so positive posts they get invited. That way, a person's activity on the forum acts as a form of pre-moderation.This is pretty easy to implement. I can set it so that based on the post count you have, if you have more than x posts, you get into a permission group. That group then gives access to a hidden forum. The only problem is that, since its this easy to get in such forum, people will actually be triggered to spam more, just to get into that forum.
That seems to have... not done anything. Has all remaining activity moved to this super hidden forum or something?
Not necessarily. How many people actually have access to the secret forums at this point?Aside of the staff, no one yet has reached the magical number of stars required, but thats besides the point. If people finally have access to this forum, I don't think that'll increase activity at the other parts of the forum. The entire idea is that because there now is a secret forum that you can earn the rights to, people become more active to make great posts that can get stars rewarded to it. I do see in the logs that people do, but for some magical reason, people stopped giving stars. The last star was given 26-03-2012 04:49.
What kind of point is headgrinder making here? Does he imply he has reached the magical number of stars? :shifty:
Who knows... ;)