Nifflas' Support Forum

Level Editing Support => Knytt Stories Level Previews => Topic started by: RichardJ on April 07, 2011, 18:38:35

Title: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: RichardJ on April 07, 2011, 18:38:35
The past few days I've been thinking of ideas for a Knytt Story. I've never designed one before (only followed the tutorial and made a 3-screen test).
I made a list of things I want the level to be:
-Environmental, no enemies - in the vein of Rain or A Walk at Night, two of my favourite Knytt stories.
-easy gameplay based around jumping to get past obstacles
-Small - 2 to 3 'zones'
After deciding these parameters I had to think of a story to fit this. This afternoon I hit upon the idea (seeing as today's a lovely day for a picnic) of Juni being invited to a picnic. This gives a goal to move towards, and the potential for at least 2 zones (Juni's home - suburban or a village; and a rural area where the picnic is being held).
Once I have preliminary sketches I'll post them in this thread. It's a little daunting seeing as I've never designed a level for anything before, but it's something I really want to try.
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: egomassive on April 07, 2011, 20:56:11
Starting off small is typically the way to go. I commend your good judgement. The levels you're drawing inspiration from are some of my favorites as well, even without screenshots I will look forward to it.
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: RichardJ on April 08, 2011, 13:32:06
Very basic sketch of the level layout: http://img222.imageshack.us/i/dscn1709.jpg/
More detailed drawing of the surfaces, backgrounds, etc.: http://img28.imageshack.us/i/dscn1710fn.jpg/
Drawing of a hill, an idea I had as I was falling asleep last night (and am glad I wrote down!): http://img190.imageshack.us/i/dscn1711z.jpg/

Hopefully you guys can read my annotations and get the idea of what I'm trying to do here. I hope to start work with the level editor later today or tomorrow.
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: yohji on April 08, 2011, 21:38:56
Impressive to see such planning for one's first level. Definitely looking forward to see what you come up with!
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: LPChip on April 08, 2011, 22:27:53
At one side, Its great to see the planning, and at the other hand, it reminds me of Nifflas' video in game design where he teaches in front of a class. When he makes games, he says, over preparing can lead to not making the level at all. He recommends to do this kind of thing directly in the level editor.

But one thing is certain, the mountain idea you're having is much easier to draw on normal paper that way, than directly in the editor.
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: egomassive on April 09, 2011, 10:43:32
Some level of planning is a good thing, but you are getting carried away here. Knowing what types of areas you'll have, the basics of the story, and which areas the power-ups will be found in can help direct you when creating the individual screens. Concept drawings of each screen probably wont benefit you though. Why draw grass on paper when you could just tile it on an actual game screen?

That said, it will be interesting to see how the finished product compares to these early visions.
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: sergiocornaga on April 09, 2011, 11:14:35
You could actually build a level that incorporates your sketches directly.
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: RichardJ on April 09, 2011, 19:45:09
Quote from: sergiocornaga on April 09, 2011, 11:14:35
You could actually build a level that incorporates your sketches directly.
Maybe I'll try something like that in future, but for the time being I'd rather use existing tilesets.
Quote from: egomassive on April 09, 2011, 10:43:32
Some level of planning is a good thing, but you are getting carried away here.
Quote from: LPChip on April 08, 2011, 22:27:53
[Nifflas] recommends to do this kind of thing directly in the level editor.
As soon as I started working with the editor, I realised the folly of having been so specific on paper. For one thing, I can browse through tilesets and choose what to use, which alters the ideas completely.
Anyway, here's a look at the opening screen and the screen directly to the left (The best idea I could think of to force the player to go right was that Juni lived in a lakeside house (perhaps in part fed by the waterfall that will appear later?)). I'd welcome any criticism about backgrounds or colour combinations or anything like that.
Spoiler: "opening screens" (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: LPChip on April 10, 2011, 00:59:01
This looks stunning! good job. :)
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: RichardJ on April 10, 2011, 22:48:02
Work is going slower than anticipated, because a) I'm finding out the limitations of working with only 2 tilesets at once, and b) I've been going to actual picnics (all research, I swear!). Anyway, I've redesigned the opening screen slightly to accommodate a change I wanted on the next screen along, which is a transition to the other area you can see below. I've also slightly redesigned the general layout: rather than starting in a city, I've decided Juni lives just outside the city but must travel through it to get to the valley to meet her friend.
Spoiler: new screens (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: Salmoneous on April 11, 2011, 00:00:30
It looks nice. Perhaps add a little life?
And you know you could edit the tilesets, like merge 2 tilesets into 1. nifflas is cool with it I think. But I guess that requires a bit much work since you can do plenty with 2 tilesets.
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: RichardJ on April 11, 2011, 00:37:56
Quote from: Salmoneous on April 11, 2011, 00:00:30
It looks nice. Perhaps add a little life?
Thanks! For the minute, I'm just tiling - I'll take care of objects and sounds later.
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: sergiocornaga on April 11, 2011, 08:42:29
It looks like you should be able to stand on all the green cliffs in your first screenshot, but this doesn't seem to be the case... that's a bit of an issue.
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: RichardJ on April 11, 2011, 13:01:21
Quote from: sergiocornaga on April 11, 2011, 08:42:29
It looks like you should be able to stand on all the green cliffs in your first screenshot, but this doesn't seem to be the case... that's a bit of an issue.
That's interesting to know. Could you say what about them makes it seem that way, or is it just the impression they give? (To clarify: you mean the ones with white grass and trees, right?) Could it be a contrast issue, i.e. changing the gradient could help? I'm colourblind so what looks normal/good to me can sometimes look really, really wrong to others.
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: sergiocornaga on April 11, 2011, 16:34:17
Quote from: RichardJ on April 11, 2011, 13:01:21
That's interesting to know. Could you say what about them makes it seem that way, or is it just the impression they give? (To clarify: you mean the ones with white grass and trees, right?) Could it be a contrast issue, i.e. changing the gradient could help? I'm colourblind so what looks normal/good to me can sometimes look really, really wrong to others.

Ah, no, I mean the one the house is sitting on mainly. It looks solid, but judging by Juni's position in the screenshot it isn't. The one's with the trees are perfect for the background.

You may be interested to know that Bernie (http://www.origamihero.com/) is a colourblind game developer (though maybe not colourblind in the same way as you) who has used it to his advantage... the colours used in his games are quite strange, but most people agree that they are awesome too.
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: RichardJ on April 11, 2011, 16:51:44
Ah, thanks. I'll try making that solid, instead. I hadn't heard of Bernie before but I'll definitely look into his games, thanks!
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: RichardJ on April 12, 2011, 20:17:27
Spoiler: new screen (click to show/hide)
Juni at the foot of the mountain. She's so close, but so far!
I've been learning how to work with the editor and layers quite fast - the way I build the screens now is very different to how I made the first couple. I've also found confidence from knowing about Bernie, a colourblind game developer, and been using tiles and backgrounds based on what they look like to me, rather than my original plan of asking people what colours this tile, or that background, was. I /think/ it's going well.
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: LPChip on April 12, 2011, 21:41:40
May I give a tip about your newest screenie? It looks quite squary. If you can, try adding diagonal slopes in the back.
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: RichardJ on April 12, 2011, 22:48:40
Alas, there aren't any diagonals on that tileset (Orange Grass). I'll look through and see if there's anything similar (I chose it for the tree models) but if I can't find anything better, I'm somewhat happy with it at the moment. (Edit:Maybe a change to 'Red Forest of Beauty')
One thing I'm having trouble with is a very small part of that screen - I've added a small series of jumps to blocks to reach the first ledge, but they're just floating blocks - nothing holding them up (see below). I might scrap that idea and put the climb powerup before the hill.
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Update: I've redesigned the mountain area (and backgrounds preceding it) based on LPChip's advice to smooth the backgrounds out. It looks a lot better, in my opinion. Thanks for the tip, LPChip! I've also decided to place the climb powerup under the tree and scrap the 'jump from floating blocks' idea.
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: LPChip on April 13, 2011, 13:45:08
Yeah, this is much better. :)

You could do something on the right, like add a slope of what you see on the left ground. Even if unreachable, it will still look as decoration. :) Like the entire bottom right corner.
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: RichardJ on April 13, 2011, 19:21:35
Thanks for the idea - I'm still experimenting with making it look good in terms of decorations like that.
Today I got the nature effects and ambient sounds in there, they may get some tweaking but hopefully tomorrow, once I've added music, I'll be able to release the level!
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: RichardJ on April 14, 2011, 18:40:45
Almost ready to release - I just want to know, for the info screen, is all of the music included with the editor by Nifflas?
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: LPChip on April 14, 2011, 19:18:53
Quote from: RichardJ on April 14, 2011, 18:40:45
Almost ready to release - I just want to know, for the info screen, is all of the music included with the editor by Nifflas?

Yes. :)
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: BloxMaster on April 14, 2011, 19:21:27
Er...I don't think all of it is, LPChip. Unless he started calling himself "Nurykabe" or "Gopher"... That is, if you are talking about the Music in the "Data" folder.

EDIT: I should clarify slightly, if you play the file in something like XMPlay, all of the original KS Data folder music has an Author tag, and most of them aren't Nifflas.
Title: Re: [easy / small / environmental] A lovely day for a picnic
Post by: RichardJ on April 14, 2011, 20:43:22
Thanks BloxMaster, I hadn't thought of looking for ID3 tags.
Anyway, the level is released! http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=4739.0