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General => Forum Games => Topic started by: NESgamer190 on July 24, 2009, 20:52:38

Title: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: NESgamer190 on July 24, 2009, 20:52:38
Welcome to the village of cliches, home of Dr. Cliche himself...  Except something's wrong...
Dr. Cliche is dead from a force deducted by the mafia!
Day one has begun in short.

Survivors:

Salmoneous
Sabata
Shawnachu
dataflashsabot
victor12 [DEAD MAFIA]  decapitated day 1
lunar_tick [DEAD TOWNIE]  Crushed night 1
budja
purple pineapple
koromi
Limelemon
technogeek
razzorman
battlehawk

Vote count:
To be updated due to no votes.
with 11 alive, 6 votes will send the person to the roulette wheel of doom!

Rules (Once again, thank you budja):
you get one vote per day, which you can pull back, as well as a darn near limitless supply of FOS.
If mafia equal or outnumber town, mafia win.
If town exterminate all threats, the town wins.
Voting for no lynch can be done, but I doubt anyone would do that.
Nightly law:
You are fully permitted to PM people about stuff (kinda like calling a friend or something like that), but posting is forbidden.
send action via PM to me if you have a special action.
Dead board rules:
There will be a board for the deceased to speak their sins or pains, but none of the living are to contact the deceased.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Razzorman on July 24, 2009, 21:04:30
Wait, shouldn't we confirm that we got our roles first?
I got mine.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Dataflashsabot on July 24, 2009, 21:33:42
I got mine.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: TechnoGeek on July 24, 2009, 21:53:00
Wait, shouldn't we confirm that we got our roles first?
I got mine.
uh-oh, this thread was to avoid the signup/confirm clutter...
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on July 24, 2009, 22:31:00
Yeah guys if someone didn't get their role then just go to NES by PM.


Shawnachu
He was the serial killer last time. Tycho Brahe, ancient Sumerian god of chance, mandates that this recurs.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Razzorman on July 24, 2009, 22:34:49
Wait, shouldn't we confirm that we got our roles first?
I got mine.
uh-oh, this thread was to avoid the signup/confirm clutter...
I see. Well, then I guess its random voting time, until something happens.
I Vote: battlehawk, because the dice wants me to.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on July 24, 2009, 22:44:33
Deck of cards.. shuffles them up.. 8 of hearts.

Oh dang. That's me. Lunar_Tick, then.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Battlehawk on July 25, 2009, 01:10:37
I vote Koromi, now off to play pinball for a while untill this thing actually gets going.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Dataflashsabot on July 25, 2009, 01:26:22
2^6/0*12+1^3 works out as...razzorman.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on July 25, 2009, 01:35:37
Blame me if this turns ugly, but someone please over-react to a vote.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Shawnachu on July 25, 2009, 01:37:54
I drew a graph and saw that I should vote Technogeek
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Battlehawk on July 25, 2009, 01:44:11
I unvote and vote Purple Pineapple upon advice handed down from on high by the gods themselves.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Sabata on July 25, 2009, 02:00:48
I will vote for Victor12, therefore not jumping on anything in the hopes of nobody being lynched for no good reason. :D
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Battlehawk on July 25, 2009, 02:19:50
While we're waiting for something to happen, I was looking over the Mafia 3 thread and saw something called FOS. Can someone explain what FOS means?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on July 25, 2009, 02:25:32
Battlehawk doesn't know what Finger of suspicion is!

FOS: Battlehawk
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Battlehawk on July 25, 2009, 02:28:46
That was mean... :sad:
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Shawnachu on July 25, 2009, 02:34:59
I split my FOS into 12 and point it at everyone.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Battlehawk on July 25, 2009, 02:38:33
I Fos myself as I'm a dirty rotten liar who can't be trusted. :shifty:
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on July 25, 2009, 03:43:41
FOS means Finger of Suspicion. It is used when you suspect someone but don't want to vote for them at that moment.

Vote: Purple Pineapple
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on July 25, 2009, 03:57:37
@shawnachu, why do you suspect everyone?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on July 25, 2009, 04:10:25
Sorry Battlehawk. I was only kidding.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on July 25, 2009, 09:19:41

FOS: victor12
FOS: koromi
FOS: Salmoneous
FOS: Limelemon

In order of preference of a future vote.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: victor12 on July 25, 2009, 13:33:03
2*66/94+42-75[(34+22)^(66*23)]=FOS-Limelemon, shawnachu, sabata(I HATE YA!!!) and... dataflashbot.Vote:Lunar_Tick. i'm sorry:(
I Fos myself as I'm a dirty rotten liar who can't be trusted. :shifty:
ROTFL COPTER!!!!
[offtopic]75th post!!![/offtopic]
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on July 25, 2009, 14:18:49
Yeah-ah lets stop being random.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Salmoneous on July 25, 2009, 16:24:20
@shawnachu, why do you suspect everyone?

Suspect everyone, trust nobody!
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Battlehawk on July 25, 2009, 16:47:24
unvote and fos victor 12 There's something odd about that guy...
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Battlehawk on July 25, 2009, 19:05:24
To elaborate on my previous post something about victors tone strikes me as odd, he seems kind of nervous almost. I'm also going to follow Lunar and FOS Salmoneous, Koromi, and Limelemon untill they speak up and prove themselves otherwise, but victor is in my opinion the most suspicious as of yet. Then again, maybe its all in my head. Its only day one after all, and victor could also just be new to the game, but I'd personally peg him as being slightly scummy. We shall see...
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on July 25, 2009, 20:58:42
Since Battlehawk's post has dragged us out of the grey sludgy randomness of early D1, I want three elephant flavoured ice creams. Oh, the irony.
unvote

On Victor:
2*66/94+42-75[(34+22)^(66*23)]=FOS-Limelemon, shawnachu, sabata(I HATE YA!!!) and... dataflashbot.Vote:Lunar_Tick. i'm sorry:(
I Fos myself as I'm a dirty rotten liar who can't be trusted. :shifty:
ROTFL COPTER!!!!
[offtopic]75th post!!![/offtopic]

I assume this post's irrationality is because of that fact that Victor seems to interpret my previous post (#21) as random and thus continues the running gag. But my post, it is not random, as I seriously list all who have been inactive.

On the other hand, the fact that I had listed Victor as at that moment in time my favourite for the lynch (yes, yes, very premature, bring out the rolling pins) may have elicited the response of a vote on me. Ayd like to know, Victor, if your post is entirely or party random in its nature, and justify your vote.

On Battlehawk:
Your vote on Victor, I don't see why you have chosen him as opposed to the other three candidates you've picked. It seems unnatural or that you're just voting for the sake of voting or random voting, which contradicts the less random spirit of the rest of your post.
Also, you came to a vote without asking a single question of Victor.

And if anyone plays the "I can't keep up with the game, oh it's so hard and I'm so stressed" card I will kill them in the night, to put them out of their misery. Yes, I am looking at you Llewellyn.

And dear mod,
It has come to my attention that no actual rules were set for this game. Are we playing Lunar house rules or old-style-old-forum-mafia-I rules?
Yes I have claimed a ruleset which I didn't make up myself as my own. Oh, the bronzy.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on July 25, 2009, 21:15:47
Yeah-ah lets stop being random.
If everyone votes randomly, there's a

(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4430/mafiacalculation.png)

probability of someone getting lynched. (Don't ask me what that is.)

People just have to know when to unvote and start discussing.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on July 25, 2009, 21:17:42
Oh yeah, unvote unFOS

PS. The only real danger of random voting is bandwagons.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Battlehawk on July 25, 2009, 21:20:08
On Battlehawk:
Your vote on Victor, I don't see why you have chosen him as opposed to the other three candidates you've picked. It seems unnatural or that you're just voting for the sake of voting or random voting, which contradicts the less random spirit of the rest of your post.

If you look closely I only FOSd Victor. I merely stated that I thought him the most suspicious. I did not vote him, and I could also be completely wrong. Its hard to try to gather evidence from random posts such as the ones we previously saw, but I had to try to make an intelligent post in order to, as you put it earlier, " drag us out of the gray sludgy depths of randomness of early D1".
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on July 25, 2009, 21:23:29
PS. The only real danger of random voting is bandwagons.
Well, that and random voting so that some guy has four votes and then the mafia pile on him at the end and lynch him.
But neither of those things aren't going to happen really. >_>

If you look closely I only FOSd Victor.
Oh yeah, my bad.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Battlehawk on July 25, 2009, 21:29:00
Oh yeah, I almost forgot, the reason I didn't ask a question is because I couldn't think of what to ask. :oops: I'll try to think of something, I'm still getting the hang of this game. X)
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: TechnoGeek on July 25, 2009, 22:44:08
And if anyone plays the "I can't keep up with the game, oh it's so hard and I'm so stressed" card I will kill them in the night, to put them out of their misery. Yes, I am looking at you Llewellyn.

that suggests to me that you are mafia or sk...
vote:Lunar_Tick
FOS:victor
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Razzorman on July 25, 2009, 23:43:16
And if anyone plays the "I can't keep up with the game, oh it's so hard and I'm so stressed" card I will kill them in the night, to put them out of their misery. Yes, I am looking at you Llewellyn.

that suggests to me that you are mafia or sk...
vote:Lunar_Tick
FOS:victor
Well, yeah, it is weird that he'd say that, but its too stupid to actually mean anything.
If you were mafia, would you say out loud that you are going to nightkill someone?

Still, there is the (very very) slight possibility that he slipped, so FOS: Lunar_Tick until we are given an explanation.

Also, I'd like to unvote.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Sabata on July 25, 2009, 23:48:58
I will Unvote, but keep my Finger Of Suspicion on Victor12, as he seems to be overreacting to me. :/
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Dataflashsabot on July 25, 2009, 23:58:17
Unvote, FOS:Lunar_Tick. It was... rather stupid to say that, even if it was a joke.

*sigh* I hate the random vote time, it's the worst part of Mafia. Next time, I suggest that the mod gives a subtle clue as to somebody's role that we can mull over.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: LimeLemon on July 26, 2009, 00:09:53
What the... what exactly happened here?
vote:LimeLemon

Lynch anyone, I don't feel like I care much. OLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOL


[mod]super small text removed, as per the Official Forum Rules.[/mod]
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Battlehawk on July 26, 2009, 01:20:30
What the... what exactly happened here?
vote:LimeLemon

Lynch anyone, I don't feel like I care much. OLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOL
I think lime lemon could be jester because of the shear stupidity and unessecary nature of that comment (sorry if that sounded nasty). Of course maybe that would be too obvious.

And if anyone plays the "I can't keep up with the game, oh it's so hard and I'm so stressed" card I will kill them in the night, to put them out of their misery. Yes, I am looking at you Llewellyn.

that suggests to me that you are mafia or sk...
vote:Lunar_Tick
FOS:victor
Well, yeah, it is weird that he'd say that, but its too stupid to actually mean anything.
If you were mafia, would you say out loud that you are going to nightkill someone?

Still, there is the (very very) slight possibility that he slipped, so FOS: Lunar_Tick until we are given an explanation.

Also, I'd like to unvote.

I missed that little comment of his. I think I'll FOS: Lunar_Tick as well to be safe, though it may just be a poor choice of words on his part.

Also, where is victor? I'd think he'd be a bit concerned now that around half the people here have FOSd him. Woops, aparently only 4 people have FOSd him, but I'm still surprised he hasn't said a single thing in quite a while.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: koromi on July 26, 2009, 01:54:52
you don't have to act like your role, battlehawk. doing so is stupid, but i think limelemon is just repeating what he tried on day 4 of last mafia: a deliberate outburst that is extremely noticeable, but removes all suspicion of being mafia. for this very reason, i put my finger of suspicion on limelemon.

lunar_tick: please explain your last post. no way could that have been a freudian slip, but an explanation is needed for this extremely strange behaviour.
...perhaps lunar_tick is the jester, and would like to act his role out?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: LimeLemon on July 26, 2009, 02:43:50
Did you read the super small text? It says:
Also, this was a joke, and if you think I'm suspicious because of this you're stupid.

I just said that to say something. Or start a discussion. I'm not trying to do anything, and I'm not claiming any role.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Shawnachu on July 26, 2009, 03:08:22
I'm gonna Unvote, and wait until Lunar explains his previous post.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on July 26, 2009, 03:57:05
Eh, if I might point out one thing to Battlehawk. Deleting/editing your posts is forbidden, even if it is something small.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on July 26, 2009, 08:26:22
..and why is everyone unvoting? We won't find scum without pressure.

The chance of Lunar scum-slipping with that post is low to me.

unvote, vote Limelemon, koromi makes a fair point and that post was a little over-the-top jokey.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on July 26, 2009, 10:36:33
Oh for the sake of the great serpent queen of Babylon.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on July 26, 2009, 10:55:09
I will Unvote, but keep my Finger Of Suspicion on Victor12, as he seems to be overreacting to me. :/
Seeing as he just made one post, the craziness of which is little more than other posts', I think calling him out for overreacting is premature.
Exactly what is he overreacting to?

Next time, I suggest that the mod gives a subtle clue as to somebody's role that we can mull over.
Wouldn't that ruin the largest part of the game? Actually, not ruin, but rather change the format and type of the game completely, which isn't bad, but it is unfair.

a deliberate outburst that is extremely noticeable, but removes all suspicion of being mafia. for this very reason, i put my finger of suspicion on limelemon.
Eeee, I'm not so certain re Koromi.
All that madness of LL D3 last game was pretty complex. I mean you can't just isolate and then look at similar behaviour and then assume it was the same thing.
Also, the outbursts are very different in character and spirit.

Eh, if I might point out one thing to Battlehawk. Deleting/editing your posts is forbidden, even if it is something small.
Yes, I did notice this earlier but forgot to post. In fact, the mod should consider retrieving the posts edited and posting them, and indeed modkilling.
On the other hand, we could chalk it up to inexperience, and the fact that NES has yet to provide us with an actual ruleset.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Salmoneous on July 26, 2009, 11:29:58
I Cast my vote on Victor12. Not that I think he is the mafia. Nobody knows who  the mafia is (Only the mafia themselves). On the first day we cant do any more then to vote out a random target.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Sabata on July 26, 2009, 15:29:03
I will Unvote, but keep my Finger Of Suspicion on Victor12, as he seems to be overreacting to me. :/
Seeing as he just made one post, the craziness of which is little more than other posts', I think calling him out for overreacting is premature.
Exactly what is he overreacting to?

One post? I must have gotten mixed up with something.
FOS: Nobody.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: LimeLemon on July 26, 2009, 15:35:01
And if anyone plays the "I can't keep up with the game, oh it's so hard and I'm so stressed" card I will kill them in the night, to put them out of their misery.

Oh, I can't keep up with the game! Will you kill me now, mafia?
I change my vote to Lunar_Tick.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Battlehawk on July 27, 2009, 03:59:52
Sorry I was gone for so long. I crashed the ranger we have, smashed up my foot, and was icing it down all day. It wasn't very fun.  :moody:

Eh, if I might point out one thing to Battlehawk. Deleting/editing your posts is forbidden, even if it is something small.

Sorry, I didn't know. I'll be more careful in the future. :oops:

I'm going to unFOS everyone except for Lunar in order to start a new analysis.

I Cast my vote on Victor12. Not that I think he is the mafia. Nobody knows who  the mafia is (Only the mafia themselves). On the first day we cant do any more then to vote out a random target.

Scum-city right here. First, he seems to be pushing for Victor even after attention around him has died down. Second, it seems odd to post somthing like this without participating within the thread at all previously, there by implying hes been lurking waiting for a possible bandwagon to jump on or initiate. Third, just look at what he's saying. It pays little attention to whats discussed and seems to just be pushing for a vote. We shouldn't be seeing this kind of comment this late in D1. Therefore I vote Salmoneous

I also FOS: Limelemon, the reason for doing so being his continued over-the-top (right terminology?) posting even after being criticized for doing so. He also seems to be pushing for a vote of Lunar even though Lunar's comment, though slightly suspicious, doesn't warrant that kind of reaction.

Example:
And if anyone plays the "I can't keep up with the game, oh it's so hard and I'm so stressed" card I will kill them in the night, to put them out of their misery.

Oh, I can't keep up with the game! Will you kill me now, mafia?
I change my vote to Lunar_Tick.

I'm still FOSing Lunar because of his faliure to explain his previous outburst and more importantly some of his more recent comments which see a bit suspicious to me.

@ Lunar please explain your outburst at least. Its not like we'll forget considering that its recorded here for all to see. This shouldn't be such a problem if your innocent.

@ Lime Lemon please be serious, for your own sake.

@ Salmoneous Where have you been, Why have you come out with such a stupid random vote this late in D1 after participating in none of the previous discussions, and you better have a really good defense for your actions.

Sorry if my logic is a bit off or something like that, I've had a long day. Hopefully I got my basic point across and didn't say something completely retarded. I'm going to bed now, night guys.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on July 27, 2009, 10:53:09
On Battlehawk:
Therefore I vote Salmoneous
Your argument against Salmoneous is quite good, and I agree with it, athough I can't vote with you yet. I feel that some players have strange ideas about D1 (not saying they're necessarily bad) which kinda contradict the more regular approach for D1. So they might be townies who just have a different playstyle. Maybe it's me who's strange, which is why I seem to remember various D1 arguments about no-lynching, randomlynching et cetera. So yeah. Good points though.

I'm still FOSing Lunar because of his faliure to explain his previous outburst and more importantly some of his more recent comments which see a bit suspicious to me.
I'd like to hear what other comments I made you find suspicious.

@ Lunar please explain your outburst at least. Its not like we'll forget considering that its recorded here for all to see. This shouldn't be such a problem if your innocent.
I didn't want to say this, but I suppose I was shortsighted in thinking that I could get away with it. That comment I made was a tactical maneuver, killing two birds with one stone. To assure my longevity in the game, at least past N1 and to underline the point that some sentimental clap trap crap wasn't going to buy nobody another day this game*. Why do I need to stay in the game if I'm not a mafia? Well, being an arrogant shithead that I am, I feel I probably contribute more to a innocent victory than, say, Victor12. And, looking back at the past and noticing that I was targeted by the mafia two (three?) games running on N1, I felt that my longevity was anything but assured.
Look at it like this, the mafia probably will kill people who are undisputed townies, thus keeping the pool of possible mafia suspects as large as possible for as long as possible.

*Also, since Limelemon is probably the most likely do to this, and I have already threatened to kill him, I expect him to be killed N1. I hadn't realized this outcome when I posted that comment, but I suppose for now I can't possibly know if this tactical bond between him and I will be useful or not.


On Limelemon:
Did you read the super small text? It says:
Also, this was a joke, and if you think I'm suspicious because of this you're stupid.

I just said that to say something. Or start a discussion. I'm not trying to do anything, and I'm not claiming any role.
I know what you did was just a joke and can't be used to determine anything about you, but surely you understand that
Quote
if you think I'm suspicious because of this you're stupid.
is barely a defense, despite it being the truth. As well as the rest of your post. The second paragraph is very dubious.
(http://sharkey.gamespite.net/forum/Smileys/classic/shrug.gif)

In fact, your vote of me strikes me as hypocritical, since I could have used that defense myself, and it also would be the truth, but it would be a feeble and grey one, if not a highly annoying one.

Anyway, I'd like Data and Koromi (surprise surprise :P) to respond to my previous post (#45) and to tell me what they think of me now and Shawn as well.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on July 27, 2009, 11:36:17
Lunar, pushing suspicion onto yourself for survivalistic reasons isn't a good move. If you want to live, act pro-town and then you have a good chance of been doc-protected.
I thought it was a ploy to escape the random stage.
I dislike this part of your post as it feels contrary to your play-style.

I'm basically neutral on Salmoneous and I am still pretty happy with my Limelemon vote for now.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Razzorman on July 27, 2009, 13:22:01
Could it be that limelemon is the jester? Its the only way I can make sense of his strange behavior throughout the day.
He wants us to lynch him.
@ Limelemon: Please explain why you have been acting like this. You aren't really helping the town this way.

@ Salmoneous:
Why did you vote for victor12 if you don't think he is mafia? Explain please.
Just because its hard to get hard conclusive evidence day one doesn't mean we should rush it. We can still try to find the mafia.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: TechnoGeek on July 27, 2009, 17:46:16
My current thoughts on D1:

Could it be that limelemon is the jester? Its the only way I can make sense of his strange behavior throughout the day.
He wants us to lynch him.
That actually makes some sense, given how odd his behavior is so far, and also his self-lynch.

I Cast my vote on Victor12. Not that I think he is the mafia. Nobody knows who  the mafia is (Only the mafia themselves). On the first day we cant do any more then to vote out a random target.
now, that is a very odd thing to say, even on day one. voting for someone you don't know is mafia, then saying we don't know who mafia is, and finishing with 'can't do any more than to vote random target.' even though we can analyze other's behaviors and try to determine what they are.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on July 27, 2009, 18:54:02
Victor12, care to comment?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on July 27, 2009, 21:38:41
Ok. I'm trying to make sense of this after being out for a while. First, is there a vote count anywhere. Second, it seems victor12 is drawing a lot of attention despite posting once(?).
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on July 27, 2009, 22:41:06
Second, it seems victor12 is drawing a lot of attention despite posting once(?).
Yeah basically we want him to address some issues.
However, the default state of players is to comment on issues; they shouldn't be asked to, it should be expected from them.
Anyway.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: koromi on July 28, 2009, 09:44:32
k then.

a deliberate outburst that is extremely noticeable, but removes all suspicion of being mafia. for this very reason, i put my finger of suspicion on limelemon.
Eeee, I'm not so certain re Koromi.
All that madness of LL D3 last game was pretty complex. I mean you can't just isolate and then look at similar behaviour and then assume it was the same thing.
Also, the outbursts are very different in character and spirit.

we must ask why you would do such an outburst. what is there to be gained from making yourself seen and even asking the town to lynch you - i'm not trying to say because it's the same person that did the outbursts in both occasions that it is more likely the circumstances are exactly the same. i am saying that it is common strategy to try something more than once.

and most importantly: lunar_tick, mafia is all about assuming, especially on the first day.

Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: LimeLemon on July 28, 2009, 14:35:38
I just said that to say something.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Razzorman on July 28, 2009, 16:29:19
I just said that to say something.
Just "because" is not a good enough reason.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: LimeLemon on July 28, 2009, 19:29:15
I'm aware of that.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on July 29, 2009, 03:11:00
FoS victor, come out of the shadows :P.

@all who haven't commented, what do you think of Limelemon?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: victor12 on July 29, 2009, 15:58:38
undo mah fos and FoS limelemon.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Shawnachu on July 29, 2009, 16:13:43
Victor, that doesn't answer any questions.

FoS victor12
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on July 30, 2009, 00:19:07
I doubt barking up Victor's tree will result in anything but wasting our time. Previous games have validated this. I have no idea what role Victor is, but due to his silent and disjointed  playstyle, I don't think we will gain anything by asking him questions.

I suppose this is great grounds for lynching, since we will be removing dead weight (slightly different from silent players) from the town. At the moment its impossible to gauge his role, so that may prove interesting.

Anyway, I'd rather lynch Victor for his sleepy playstyle rather than (say) Limelemon's more avantgarde, more suspicious but more talkative style.

Also, I feel we've been dwelling way too long on Victor's behaviour.

Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on July 30, 2009, 00:34:22
Koromi's post eludes me.


i'm not trying to say because it's the same person that did the outbursts in both occasions that it is more likely the circumstances are exactly the same.

i am saying that it is common strategy to try something more than once.

These two sentences seem to contradict each other.
In one sentence, Koromi says that we cannot claim that the two situations are similar (just because the two situations pertain the same person, LL).
In the other sentence, Koromi provides evidence that supports the claim that the two situation are similar (because the two situations pertain the same person, LL).

Is this some kind of strange rhetorical tactic, or?


Again:
and most importantly: lunar_tick, mafia is all about assuming, especially on the first day.
Reading this after reading the part of my post #45 on Koromi, it seems that he states an opinion and disagrees with me: that we ought to assume (generally) about things in the game, and also we ought to assume (more specifically now) that the two incidents of LL behaviour are similar, and should be treated as such.



I wouldn't like to comment more on this because, naturally, Koromi (among others) has to come in and sort it out, however I will say that the assertion
Quote
mafia is all about assuming, especially on the first day.
should not be held as a golden rule, as it possibly leads to a bad attitude. This bad attitude is essentially believing that in a game of Mafia you can't really have any tangible and proper evidence, so let's just go with our gut instinct rather than ask questions or try to obtain what we see as the impossible.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on July 30, 2009, 05:16:40
FoS victor, come out of the shadows :P.
That is indeed rather out of the shadows, seeing as victor just happens to be the one lucky inactive to draw attention. FOS:Budja
@all who haven't commented, what do you think of Limelemon?
It's seems like LimeLemon started by being random and people got suspicious of that. The majority of his remaining posts were self defense against koromi's accusation.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on July 30, 2009, 05:54:00
What's wrong with a little pressure? Although Lunar is probably right that we won't get much out of victor.

@Purple Pineapple, I want your opinion.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on July 30, 2009, 06:05:06
On what?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on July 30, 2009, 06:38:17
LimeLemon :P.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on July 30, 2009, 20:56:28
I think, among others, that Salmoneous, Technogeek, Dataflashabot and Sabata should pipe up.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on July 30, 2009, 22:00:03
My opinion is that there's not really and evidence on which to lynch LimeLemon. He doesn't seem particularly suspicious to me. Maybe got a bit carried away, but not really in a mafia way.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Sabata on July 31, 2009, 00:35:51
I think that LimeLemon's behavior, though suspicious, shows that he's not mafia, and likely to be the jester, because he's drawing attention to himself. Of course he could be doing that to throw us off track. :/

Victor12 just seems too silent; I doubt that lynching him would lead to any bad results.

Still, I'm not going to vote / FOS yet.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on July 31, 2009, 08:45:24
Victor12 just seems too silent; I doubt that lynching him would lead to any bad results.
In total agreement.

Still, I'm not going to vote / FOS yet.
Yeah, I'll vote after the next votecount.


Or not. Victor12
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Dataflashsabot on July 31, 2009, 13:05:56
Well, I've been quite busy lately and haven't really paid much attention to the game (oh noes don't nightkill me Lunar_Tick!), but looking over the thread reveals that a lot of people have been acting pretty suspiciously.

I think I'm going to vote:victor12. There's really not much to go on. He doesn't seem very helpful anyways. Of course, there's a slight possibility he's the jester- silence will eventually get you lynched. I guess I'll have to take that risk.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on July 31, 2009, 14:06:40
Unofficial Votecount

lunar_tick    (3): purple pineapple, technogeek, Limelemon
victor12      (3): Salmoneous, lunar_tick, dataflashsabot
Salmoneous   (1): battlehawk
Limelemon   (1): budja

Not Voting: victor12, koromi, razzorman, Sabata, Shawnachu

@ all you people not voting, why aren't you voting? Who is your suspect#1?

I dislike people making cases against players without following up with a vote and simply FoSing. It lacks pressure.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: LimeLemon on July 31, 2009, 14:17:04
And if anyone plays the "I can't keep up with the game, oh it's so hard and I'm so stressed" card I will kill them in the night, to put them out of their misery.

He freaking confessed he's either mafia or SK!
Vote him or give me a really good reason why not to.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Dataflashsabot on July 31, 2009, 15:11:12
...don't you think it likely that he's the jester? Although it does seem too obvious.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: TechnoGeek on July 31, 2009, 17:53:47
alright, victor12 has had plenty of time to explain himself, and he hasn't.
vote:victor12
FoSobJ:LimeLemon (FoSobJ=finger of suspicion of being jester)
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Razzorman on July 31, 2009, 18:52:58
Aren't we being a little too quick in voting for Victor?
It may just be that I am too picky, but I don't think we have enough evidence against him.

His first post in the topic (http://nifflas.ni2.se/forum/index.php?topic=1418.msg15351#msg15351)
He made a random vote and FOS at roughly the same time as everybody else.
@Everyone who voted victor: Please explain why this is more suspicious than any other random vote.

His second post in the topic (http://nifflas.ni2.se/forum/index.php?topic=1418.msg15681#msg15681)
While it is suspicious that he had absolutely nothing to say, that he didn't unvote, and that he has been very inactive, I don't want to lynch him just yet. I think we should at least wait for a response until we decide to lynch. If his next post is just as random as the rest, I'm fine with rolling the bandwagon.

@ all you people not voting, why aren't you voting? Who is your suspect#1?
Shawnachu. He has been pretty silent, and most of what he has said has just been following the crowd.
@Shawnachu: What do you think of, say, Salmoneous?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Shawnachu on July 31, 2009, 19:32:48
Salmoneous? He's the one that's been silent <_<
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on July 31, 2009, 20:59:24
Unofficial Votecount

lunar_tick    (3): purple pineapple, technogeek, Limelemon
Oh yeah, unvote unFOS
Thanks for the votecount, Budja. Even if it is wrong.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Salmoneous on July 31, 2009, 21:04:53
Salmoneous? He's the one that's been silent <_<

I have already voted and I don't need to say anything more. What? You think Im the mafia because Im not making a load of replays accusing people for being the mafia without any evidence or theory? Just shut up and vote for someone!
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on July 31, 2009, 21:10:30
1. I split up my FoS and point it at Salmoneous, Lunar_Tick, and dataflashsabot. You three don't have any real evidence on victor12. Not even of lurking.

2. LimeLemon's posts thus far have lead nowhere. He seems to be randomly voting a fair ways into day 1. FoS: LimeLemon

Salmoneous? He's the one that's been silent <_<

I have already voted and I don't need to say anything more. What? You think Im the mafia because Im not making a load of replays accusing people for being the mafia without any evidence or theory? Just shut up and vote for someone!
..and we're back to day 1, reply #3 tactics. FoS*2: Salmoneous
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on July 31, 2009, 22:59:48
Vote him or give me a really good reason why not to.

Well, it looks like you are to ignoring the points I made on this. You may either rebut those points or just disagree with them or whatever, but your posts seems to suggest there is no explanation for my actions, and also that I haven't given one. And that is not the case.
You may not consider those points good enough, but you haven't provided any post disagreeing with them, so I can only assume that opinion is subjective, even though it seems you support that your view is objective.
(I know I'm reading a lot into your post, that's how it comes off to me, feel free to completely deny all this)



You three don't have any real evidence on victor12.

No I don't have much evidence that he's scum at all. In fact, I don't think I ever said I found him particularly suspicious (?).

But I do have some evidence that he is pretty much dead weight (or at least the closest out of all the players that can be described as such).
The thing is, it will be extremely hard for us to determine Victor's role if he plays silently like this. If he's mafia, he'll go under the radar to the end of the game, and if he's town he'll be no use to us if he survives for two or three days. A lose-lose situation for keeping him alive.

This can't be said for players like (say) Limelemon or Technogeek. Although they are slightly more suspicious (because they have actually said some things, voiced their opinions), they are also much more useful, despite the fact that they might be mafia. This goes for most players at the moment.

And yes, I am basing my opinion of Victor on his play in previous games.

However, I understand the point that perhaps some of you have made. The point that although victor probably is a good target we're lynching too fast. I can only speak for myself when I say that if I see one or two players suddenly vote Victor out of the blue, and if I also feel that the daytime discussion could be prolonged a little, then I will definitely remove my vote from Victor, and caution the other users that we are rushing.

Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on July 31, 2009, 23:03:45
Salmoneous? He's the one that's been silent <_<

That is not a good way to avoid just telling people what you think Shawn. Although yes, perhaps Razzor did not see that Salmoneous was less active than you, that doesn't waive his right of asking you a question.
Or maybe you just have nothing to divulge at the moment?
Anyway, he wasn't accusing you of anything, so why the clammyness? Like a shut clam? You know? Shut clam man? From the depths of the sea? Living with the watery eels?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on August 01, 2009, 01:28:23
Have any games here ever had a Jester? No.
So why are people jester-speculating. It is a non-standard role that is rarely used in mafia and the chance of a Jester being in this game is very small.

@Purple, FoS here, FoS there, but why no vote, eh?

@mod, purple is not voting lunar (my mistake) and could we have a list of rules in first post too please.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 01, 2009, 02:47:32
@Purple, FoS here, FoS there, but why no vote, eh?
Because I'm not ready to vote for someone yet. No one has really struck me as suspicious. If anyone, I'd vote for LimeLemon, but he's got a good likelihood of being jester.
It is a non-standard role that is rarely used in mafia and the chance of a Jester being in this game is very small.
What makes you say that?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on August 01, 2009, 03:59:08
(For those who don't know, a jester is a role that must be lynched to win).

Well, at the forum where I usually play mafia,  jesters are very rare as they make scum-hunting harder and so are usually only in open games. You can say this might not apply here but look at our previous Mafia games. We generally have fairly basic roles.

Also, "jester-hunting" is a cop out. There are better ways to explain behaviour than to call jester. Acting scummy is scummy and deserves a vote.


Quote from: Purple Pinapple
FoS: LimeLemon
Quote from: Purple Pinapple
FoS*2: Salmoneous
This seems to suggest you found Salmoneous scummier than Limelemon  :huh:.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 01, 2009, 05:29:26
Quote from: Purple Pinapple
FoS: LimeLemon
Quote from: Purple Pinapple
FoS*2: Salmoneous
This seems to suggest you found Salmoneous scummier than Limelemon  :huh:.
I was saying that as backup for previous cases against Salmoneous.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Dataflashsabot on August 01, 2009, 14:48:28
This is the first game on this forum where a jester is even a possibility. It seems likely that NES gave the same chance of there being one as any other role.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on August 01, 2009, 15:28:47
Why?

Jester is a rare role. Cop/Investigator and Doctor (for example) are common roles.

Just stop the jester speculation already. Its anti-town to think you can't lynch someone for looking scummy because well... they are being scummy.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Dataflashsabot on August 01, 2009, 16:22:52
Jester is a rare role in many mafia games, it might not be here now that it has been added as a possibility. Did you even read what I said?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on August 01, 2009, 16:32:54
I did and I responded.

I am choosing to believe that there is no jester (v. likely as noone is really that scummy yet) and lynch a scummy person. If that person is a jester (v. unlikely), too bad the jester can win too.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: victor12 on August 01, 2009, 17:32:53
i am just busy:<
anyway, unvote and Vote:koromi. he is silent too.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Razzorman on August 01, 2009, 18:24:29
i am just busy:<
anyway, unvote and Vote:koromi. he is silent too.

I guess that settles it then. :^^:
Vote: victor12
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: koromi on August 02, 2009, 02:53:18
i am just busy:<
anyway, unvote and Vote:koromi. he is silent too.

hardly. i've done three posts. you've done three. also: being busy is the crappiest excuse ever.

vote: victor12
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on August 02, 2009, 03:11:15
*ahem*

[warning]victor is at L-1[/warning]

I don't mind the pressure on victor, but I don't want him to be lynched yet. He is a lurker, not greatly scummy.

@victor, give us your opinion on the game so far. Prove your worth.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 02, 2009, 03:23:40
[warning]victor is at L-1[/warning]
*sigh* Indeed.
@victor, give us your opinion on the game so far. Prove your worth.
You may be on hold awhile there.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on August 02, 2009, 09:48:36
Unvote.

On Koromi:
vote: victor12
Primarily, could you give your reasons for voting? It looks like you're voting because of Victor's silence, but, as you point out yourself, you are just as silent.
Secondarily, please respond to my post #65.

Also, I think I share some ground with budja on the issue that we are considering the possibility of a jester too much. Wouldn't it be better if we just found scum and shat up about it?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: victor12 on August 02, 2009, 10:39:08
OMG, you can't understand i do many things now like watching LPs on youtube, making a game in game maker, making a KS level etc. so now i go inactive. *thanks lunar for defence* *opens KS editor*
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Razzorman on August 02, 2009, 22:58:44
@Everyone: Ahem. What do you think of a victor lynch? Is a good idea? If if you not, why? Is there anyone you are particularly suspicous of? If so, why?
Speak up goddammit!
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Sabata on August 02, 2009, 23:10:23
Personally, I think lynching Victor12 would be a good idea. He's not helpful, nor providing anything reasonable (in my opinion) to his defense, and if he's that busy, as he says, he should be lynched for not being at all useful. :/

As for everyone else, LimeLemon, to me, still seems to be the Jester, or just drawing attention to himself for some reason. The Silents, well, you can't really be especially suspicious of them, because it's the first day, and any reason for their lynching is just as random as anyone else's. Victor shouldn't be seen as a Silent, because he's posted twice while heavy suspicion is on him, but hasn't given a reasonable argument to keep him from being killed, rather, he simply shows that we should get rid of him, because he's "too busy" to keep track of the game. :/

I Vote Victor12.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Battlehawk on August 02, 2009, 23:13:23
STOP DON'T VOTE FOR VICTOR!!!If, you do you may regret it terribly come D2! There are obvious mafia members among us who have started this bandwagon against him in order to divert attention from themselves. In my opinion when I accused Salmoneous earlier the mafia attempted to and succeeded in igniting a bandwagon against Victor to divert attention from Salmoneous. Victor's made 3 posts as of yet and in them there is almost no proof whatsoever that points to Victor being mafia. I believe that Victor may just be a bit of a noob to this, as 1 or  2 of you pointed out hes acted this way in previous games as well. As for his last post voting Koromi it strikes me as merely an amateurish mistake resulting from being out of touch with the majority of the proceedings of this game. As for voting him off to get rid of so called *dead weight* I'd like to call your attention to mafia 3 where Igiari was voted off for the same reason and regrets were voiced about it later. I wouldn't peg Victor as the sly crafty tactician the some of you seem to believe he is. In my opinion theres no doubt Salmoneous is the real scumbag here. All you have to do is look carefully at his posts to discover how alarmingly scummy he is. I will dissect them for you now:

I have already voted and I don't need to say anything more.
1. Yes you do. You can't just go around randomly accusing  people. Discussion is vital to the town in mafia. It allows the town to root out mafia and avoid mafia tricks and bandwagons
What? You think I'm the mafia because I'm not making a load of replays accusing people for being the mafia without any evidence or theory?

2. Not only was that a gross overreaction to Shawnachus simple prod at you for being silent, but it is also so horrifically contradictory it makes my head spin. For starters in contradicts what you said in sentence 1 and it completely contradicts your original post as shown below.
I Cast my vote on Victor12. Not that I think he is the mafia. Nobody knows who  the mafia is (Only the mafia themselves). On the first day we cant do any more then to vote out a random target.
Not only do you baselessly accuse Victor from out of the blue, but you confess to the fact that you have no evidence and promote random bandwagons in your very next sentence. This is a direct and complete contradiction to what you said above.

Just shut up and vote for someone!
3. This is, my friends, the final nail in Salmoneous's coffin. The red flag, the smoking gun. This is the damning evidence that will send Salmoneous's scummy rotting corpse to the grave. No one in their right minds would dare whisper what Salmoneous just shouted. If this and the evidence mentioned above doesn't scream mafia trying to discourage intelligent discussion and promote random bandwagons to divert suspicion from themselves and their cohorts then I don't know what does. Salmoneous's posts have been full of lies, contradictions, and telltale mafia rhetoric, and therefore I can say, beyond any reasonable doubt and with a clear conscience, SalmoneousI accuse you of being a member of the mafia and call on my colleagues to join me in condemning you to the hangmans noose. *que epic Phoenix Wright music*

Note: Sorry if I got a bit caught up in the moment when I was writing #3. X)
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Battlehawk on August 02, 2009, 23:16:23
DAANG I WAS TO LATE!
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Sabata on August 02, 2009, 23:47:29
Lunar_Tick unvoted; there's not enough to lynch Victor. 9_9

There's hardly any reason to point to Salmoneous. Just because he wants the day to end is no reason to blatantly accuse him of being a bandwagonning mafia member. For one thing, it has already been shown that Victor12 is not going to be helping us in the townies' cause, and he's just dead weight. For another thing, you're being way too quick in denouncing Salmoneous for voting against Victor12. Salmoneous has shown the same (or at least very similar) behavior in a past game of mafia, was lynched, and then shown to be on the side of the townies.

If anything, I'd say that you may be Mafia (or at least an anti-town role) because of these arguments you're making!
1.) There's already been, what, 6.5 pages of reasonable discussion? And the first day isn't even over yet!
2.) It's already been said many times, in previous mafia games and by other people that the first day can't generate much valuable evidence in weeding out the mafia. Secondly, that wasn't an overreaction. What do you call LimeLemon's posts, then? They're not bad enough to warrant a vote, while Salmoneous' slightly sarcastic and reasonably defensive post is?
3.) Your argument is horridly unrealistic here. That's no reason to be so sure of someone's alignment; he just wants to get the day over with and get to nighttime so that there might be more evidence. He's acted similarly in previous games of mafia, and I quote:

There is no proof of who is the mafia since no night actions has been done yet. I could say that I am the mafia but nobody would know that. So, its the first day, just randomly vote someone out. Even if I will get voted out.

Think, what would the mafia do in the voting time/day.

I'm going to unvote, not because your argument was successful but because there's now more people for me to be suspicious of, including you.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Battlehawk on August 03, 2009, 01:45:44
Yeah... now that I look at it maybe I was a little over the top with that last post... sorry, I still think he's pretty suspicious. I just kinda got caught up in the game. Heh heh. :oops:
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Battlehawk on August 03, 2009, 01:50:53
Despite going ultra paranoid I did make some good points though that should be taken into consideration, like when I analyzed his post. I thought I did pretty good there. :oops:
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 03, 2009, 02:10:07
Well, to draw attention away from victor, vote:Salmoneous based on previous reasoning.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on August 03, 2009, 06:03:26
Victor is being useless. Meta shows that victor rarely comment on the game despite his role and the information he has. (See Mafia 2 where he was lynched with 2 guilties). He hasn't been either scummy or helpful at all.

Null, would be a reasonable policy lynch.

Salmoneous is also playing to meta. He is still sticking to the old way of quick lynching. May become more useful on future days.

Null.

I am a little more willing to vote for Victor but neither are actually scummy.

Quote from: Battlehawk
STOP DON'T VOTE FOR VICTOR!!
Quote from: Battlehawk
DAANG I WAS TO LATE!

These feel a bit forced to me.

Quote from: Battlehawk
As for voting him off to get rid of so called *dead weight* I'd like to call your attention to mafia 3 where Igiari was voted off for the same reason and regrets were voiced about it later.

The Igiari lynch wasn't that bad. Players who refuse to post and give us a chance to determine their alignment are certainly bad for the town. They should pick up their act or face a lynching.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Razzorman on August 03, 2009, 10:38:26
Why are we looking so much at previous games? Even if some are acting similarly, it might be for completely different reasons.
                         

True, Salmoneous is a bit suspicious if you speculate around what he did, but he is definitely not suspicious enough for a lynch. The same thing goes for shawnachu.
Victor, on the other hand has proved himself useless to the town, and he himself stated that he won't be playing the game much.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on August 03, 2009, 11:28:03
*thanks lunar for defence*
Yeeeah... Crossed telegraph poles maybe. The only reason I'm not voting Victor is because I don't want the day to end before all the questions are at least partly resolved.

On Battlehawk:
As for voting him off to get rid of so called *dead weight* I'd like to call your attention to mafia 3 where Igiari was voted off for the same reason and regrets were voiced about it later.
I didn't regret it.
Also, it isn't done to use previous games so much in one's argumentation. A paradigm shift or something.

Discussion is vital to the town in mafia.
Voting Victor at this point would hurt the discussion the least, wouldn't it?

Not only was that a gross overreaction [...]
I think this is one of those cases of the pot calling the kettle African-American.

This is, my friends, the final nail in [...] the hangmans noose.
Demagoguery.

Just to be clear, I somewhat believe Salmoneous could be scummy, but I definately think that Battlehawk's case is premature. Perhaps with a little questioning, or after N1.

I'm still FOSing Lunar because of his faliure to explain his previous outburst and more importantly some of his more recent comments which see a bit suspicious to me.
I'd like to hear what other comments I made you find suspicious.
Also a response to this would be appreciated.


On Purple Pineapple:
Well, to draw attention away from victor, vote:Salmoneous based on previous reasoning.
Why do you need to draw attention away from him?
This comes off as a very weird post.

Quote from: Purple Pinapple
FoS: LimeLemon
Quote from: Purple Pinapple
FoS*2: Salmoneous
This seems to suggest you found Salmoneous scummier than Limelemon  :huh:.
I was saying that as backup for previous cases against Salmoneous.
As backup for what now who?
I don't get this post. What do you mean you wanted to "backup" for previous cases?


On Budja:
Victor is being useless. [...]
The Igiari lynch wasn't that bad. [...]
Your post (#109) seems to support a Victor lynch, or at least a Victor lynch over a Salmoneous lynch. You curiously write that post displaying all the information on the subject but I have no clue on your actual position on it. :P
Clarify?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on August 03, 2009, 14:05:11

My opinion of victor:
Quote from: Budja
Null, would be a reasonable policy lynch.


Probably a decent policy lynch for the day. I don't see him as scummy but he is certainly a dead weight, a lurker and hard to read.

Still, I am a little uncomfortable with a lynch yet as there still seems to be ground for conversation and people commenting on the game unlike when we lurker-lynched Igiari for very similar reasons.

So in short, decent lynch but not yet.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on August 03, 2009, 16:54:14
Oh ok nice.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 03, 2009, 23:07:49
On Purple Pineapple:
Well, to draw attention away from victor, vote:Salmoneous based on previous reasoning.
Why do you need to draw attention away from him?
This comes off as a very weird post.
Because I don't want a lynch just yet.
Quote from: Purple Pinapple
FoS: LimeLemon
Quote from: Purple Pinapple
FoS*2: Salmoneous
This seems to suggest you found Salmoneous scummier than Limelemon  :huh:.
I was saying that as backup for previous cases against Salmoneous.
As backup for what now who?
I don't get this post. What do you mean you wanted to "backup" for previous cases?
Admittedly, that was not very well phrased. I already said Salmoneous seemed scummy for a few reasons, and I was using that as backup for my point.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Salmoneous on August 04, 2009, 11:30:18
This is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: koromi on August 04, 2009, 11:51:11
OMG, you can't understand i do many things now like watching LPs on youtube, making a game in game maker, making a KS level etc. so now i go inactive. *thanks lunar for defence* *opens KS editor*

so you'll just pop in here and there when your life is threatened?
that's hardly going to help the town find the mafia.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: victor12 on August 04, 2009, 15:11:27
iwill go in there when im bored OR when im looking for a KS/TME level.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on August 04, 2009, 16:23:35
On Salmoneous:
This is ridiculous.
I daren't ask what you find ridiculous.

To be blunt, I think you knew the fashion of the machinations of this game before you signed up. So, if you don't like it, either add something of use and clamour on, or don't and suck it up.

Humbug.

Think, what would the mafia do in the voting time/day.
...?
Salmoneous, please expand on this. What do the mafia do during the voting time/day? And how do you suggest we play the rest of the game?


On Purple Pineapple:
Because I don't want a lynch just yet.
Hold on there. I know I would be a hypocrite of massive proportions if I accused you of deviating from the standard average townie persona but I will.

Let us assume by this post you meant "I don't want a lynch of Victor just yet". I cannot fathom a situation where a townie would be so sure of another player's innocence to vote for another person (perhaps encouraging or hoping for a bandwagon*?) as a diversion, to save that player.

It is more likely you mean "I don't want any kind of lynch just yet" (which is what you actually say  X-P). The tactic you used to stop a lynch was just voting on some guy of whom a big demagoguery-style case was made! This can easily be interpreted as hopping on a bandwagon. You definitely were/are not campaigning for taking things slow. Instead of pointing out (as budja did a while back) that we're nearing a lynch and should be careful, you vote. This contradicts you?

This reason you give, I find it inadequate and suspicious.
FOS: Purple Pineapple.


Quote from: Purple Pinapple
Admittedly, that was not very well phrased. I already said Salmoneous seemed scummy for a few reasons, and I was using that as backup for my point.
Sorry, I don't follow. You were using "that" (what?) as "backup" (huh?) for "my point" (which one?)

Furthermore, I'd like Purple Pineapple to elaborate much more on why he voted Salmoneous, and why he didn't/doesn't support the Victor vote. A whole page of Battlehawk's opinions and Sabata's (and others') rebuttals and you barely comment?


On Sabata:
1.) There's already been, what, 6.5 pages of reasonable discussion? And the first day isn't even over yet!
6.5 pages isn't enough if we are not sure of our target. The mind set of sitting down to the discussion table as if it were a chore is very detrimental and usually brings the mentality of wanting to leave as soon as we've made our decision and as fast as possible.
One doesn't need to be active to play, but one needs to be active to win.

2.) It's already been said many times, in previous mafia games and by other people that the first day can't generate much valuable evidence in weeding out the mafia.
Yes it can. It is just very, very difficult to see it. The first day is the most valuable, one could say. It indirectly affects the rest of the course of the game and the actions during it are far from random.
Whoever we lynch, the behaviour of the mafia N1 and D2 (and by extension the rest of the game) necessarily hinge on D1 actions and lynch, so D1 is, albeit indirectly and invisibly, the most evidence generating day in the game.
D1 also gives us direct evidence, but of course we won't be able to spot it right now. If we stir things up now, we'll be able to look back to D1 when a player starts getting very suspicious indeedums, and see in the D1 posts incriminating evidence in his posts.


On Battlehawk:
I won't quote, but in Battlehawk's post #103, a lot of the argumentation is based on the tenet that Salmoneous is contradicting himself on various issues. In fact the sting "contradict" appears five times in his post.
However, I didn't really see the contradictions Salmon was making. He seems to hold a very clear, one sided and blatant position on the issues he mentions.
Battlehawk, do enlighten me by presenting Salmoneous' posts in which he defends two different and contradicting stances.


At Sabata, Purple Pineapple and Batlehawk:
I want your views on Battlehawk's post #103, Sabata's post #105, my posts on the matter of supporting or opposing a Salmoneous lynch and anything else that you'd like to comment on.


And finally:
so you'll just pop in here and there when your life is threatened?
that's hardly going to help the town find the mafia.
Indeed. However, I think we have a hot discussion going on, no need to lynch Victor yet.

Limelemon, Technogeek and Shawnachu also need to get it on.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on August 04, 2009, 16:27:01
Rereading post #118, I come off as a patronising turd. I guess character seeps out whatever I try.  C)

Oh and, it looks like we can PM each other during the night. Let me say one thing: A townie shouldn't plot. Anything you wanna say about your machination to trap that nasty mafia will only get you lynched. Anything you wanna say about your opinions on all the players can be said in public.

So yes, I will publish all PMs sent to me during the night.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Dataflashsabot on August 04, 2009, 16:30:59
...I thought only Mafia can PM.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: TechnoGeek on August 04, 2009, 16:39:35
alright, unvote:victor FoS:victor and salmoneous.

i also don't want a lynch just yet, however i want to say this:
victor, why have you signed up for a game of mafia, where you are expected to post often? if you only check when you're bored, then you aren't contributing very much.
salmoneous, you seem to want a random lynch, which would actually be more likely to fall on town roles (i think). you also seem to be saying over and over that it's impossible to get the mafia D1. however, we can get very good guesses and quickly determine the dead-weight of the game.

...I thought only Mafia can PM.
so did I. Lunar, explanation?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on August 04, 2009, 18:46:57
Rules (Once again, thank you budja):

[...]

Nightly law:
You are fully permitted to PM people about stuff (kinda like calling a friend or something like that), but posting is forbidden.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Salmoneous on August 04, 2009, 20:19:23
Think, what would the mafia do in the voting time/day.
...?
Salmoneous, please expand on this. What do the mafia do during the voting time/day? And how do you suggest we play the rest of the game?

I havent said that. At least not in this game so dont try anything. But I would suggest you stop talking, your comment on every reply in the thread is a little annoying  :P2
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: TechnoGeek on August 04, 2009, 22:10:45
Think, what would the mafia do in the voting time/day.
...?
Salmoneous, please expand on this. What do the mafia do during the voting time/day? And how do you suggest we play the rest of the game?

I havent said that. At least not in this game so dont try anything. But I would suggest you stop talking, your comment on every reply in the thread is a little annoying  :P2
actually, Lunar_Tick is one of the best at analyzing people's behaviors, and is more helpful to the town. Commenting on every reply can help us make an educated guess on their role.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 05, 2009, 02:23:08
@Lunar: Ok. My reasoning is as follows: I didn't wan't any lynch just yet. If I didn't say I was using that as a diversion, you would've asked me why I was making an apparently random lynch. I had every intention of unvoting when Salmoneous drew too near to a lynch. If I voted for some random person, it would seem even more suspicious. But now that it absolutely clear that was a waste of time with you on everyone's case, unvote

At Sabata, Purple Pineapple and Batlehawk:
I want your views on Battlehawk's post #103, Sabata's post #105, my posts on the matter of supporting or opposing a Salmoneous lynch and anything else that you'd like to comment on.
Let me just find those posts..
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 05, 2009, 02:30:25
Lunar_Tick unvoted; there's not enough to lynch Victor. 9_9

There's hardly any reason to point to Salmoneous. Just because he wants the day to end is no reason to blatantly accuse him of being a bandwagonning mafia member. For one thing, it has already been shown that Victor12 is not going to be helping us in the townies' cause, and he's just dead weight. For another thing, you're being way too quick in denouncing Salmoneous for voting against Victor12. Salmoneous has shown the same (or at least very similar) behavior in a past game of mafia, was lynched, and then shown to be on the side of the townies.

If anything, I'd say that you may be Mafia (or at least an anti-town role) because of these arguments you're making!
1.) There's already been, what, 6.5 pages of reasonable discussion? And the first day isn't even over yet!
2.) It's already been said many times, in previous mafia games and by other people that the first day can't generate much valuable evidence in weeding out the mafia. Secondly, that wasn't an overreaction. What do you call LimeLemon's posts, then? They're not bad enough to warrant a vote, while Salmoneous' slightly sarcastic and reasonably defensive post is?
3.) Your argument is horridly unrealistic here. That's no reason to be so sure of someone's alignment; he just wants to get the day over with and get to nighttime so that there might be more evidence. He's acted similarly in previous games of mafia, and I quote:

There is no proof of who is the mafia since no night actions has been done yet. I could say that I am the mafia but nobody would know that. So, its the first day, just randomly vote someone out. Even if I will get voted out.

Think, what would the mafia do in the voting time/day.

I'm going to unvote, not because your argument was successful but because there's now more people for me to be suspicious of, including you.
Grumble. I just explained my reasoning to the Salmoneous vote. I stick by my FoS, though. Salmoneous still stubbornly refuses to accept that there are ways to vote on the first day.
 
STOP DON'T VOTE FOR VICTOR!!!If, you do you may regret it terribly come D2! There are obvious mafia members among us who have started this bandwagon against him in order to divert attention from themselves. In my opinion when I accused Salmoneous earlier the mafia attempted to and succeeded in igniting a bandwagon against Victor to divert attention from Salmoneous. Victor's made 3 posts as of yet and in them there is almost no proof whatsoever that points to Victor being mafia. I believe that Victor may just be a bit of a noob to this, as 1 or  2 of you pointed out hes acted this way in previous games as well. As for his last post voting Koromi it strikes me as merely an amateurish mistake resulting from being out of touch with the majority of the proceedings of this game. As for voting him off to get rid of so called *dead weight* I'd like to call your attention to mafia 3 where Igiari was voted off for the same reason and regrets were voiced about it later. I wouldn't peg Victor as the sly crafty tactician the some of you seem to believe he is. In my opinion theres no doubt Salmoneous is the real scumbag here. All you have to do is look carefully at his posts to discover how alarmingly scummy he is. I will dissect them for you now:

I have already voted and I don't need to say anything more.
1. Yes you do. You can't just go around randomly accusing  people. Discussion is vital to the town in mafia. It allows the town to root out mafia and avoid mafia tricks and bandwagons
What? You think I'm the mafia because I'm not making a load of replays accusing people for being the mafia without any evidence or theory?

2. Not only was that a gross overreaction to Shawnachus simple prod at you for being silent, but it is also so horrifically contradictory it makes my head spin. For starters in contradicts what you said in sentence 1 and it completely contradicts your original post as shown below.
I Cast my vote on Victor12. Not that I think he is the mafia. Nobody knows who  the mafia is (Only the mafia themselves). On the first day we cant do any more then to vote out a random target.
Not only do you baselessly accuse Victor from out of the blue, but you confess to the fact that you have no evidence and promote random bandwagons in your very next sentence. This is a direct and complete contradiction to what you said above.

Just shut up and vote for someone!
3. This is, my friends, the final nail in Salmoneous's coffin. The red flag, the smoking gun. This is the damning evidence that will send Salmoneous's scummy rotting corpse to the grave. No one in their right minds would dare whisper what Salmoneous just shouted. If this and the evidence mentioned above doesn't scream mafia trying to discourage intelligent discussion and promote random bandwagons to divert suspicion from themselves and their cohorts then I don't know what does. Salmoneous's posts have been full of lies, contradictions, and telltale mafia rhetoric, and therefore I can say, beyond any reasonable doubt and with a clear conscience, SalmoneousI accuse you of being a member of the mafia and call on my colleagues to join me in condemning you to the hangmans noose. *que epic Phoenix Wright music*

Note: Sorry if I got a bit caught up in the moment when I was writing #3. X)
I rather agree with this post to some extent. Salmoneous just needs to step up and discuss rather than hanging on a rather bad day 1 strategy.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Razzorman on August 05, 2009, 11:48:58
@Shawnachu: Where are you?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on August 05, 2009, 17:39:10
On Purple Pineapple
@Lunar: Ok. My reasoning is as follows: I didn't wan't any lynch just yet. If I didn't say I was using that as a diversion, you would've asked me why I was making an apparently random lynch. I had every intention of unvoting when Salmoneous drew too near to a lynch. If I voted for some random person, it would seem even more suspicious.
So you are telling me you think it is less suspicious to vote on a player about whom a very shaky D1 case has been made, exactly the kind which would lead to a quick bandwagon (and give no reason about it but anyway), than to vote randomly on some guy?

The first choice puts Salmoneous in a dangerous position (aggravating a bandwagon, etc), which you say you had no intention of doing, as you were gonna take your vote off. The second puts no player in a dangerous position.

I therefore don't think it would seem even more suspicious if you voted randomly.
I also think the least suspicious way would be to campaign normally against a Victor lynch with evidence and shizzle, not trying all this slightly underhand tricks.

If I didn't say I was using that as a diversion, you would've asked me why I was making an apparently random lynch.
If you did vote somebody randomly, I would ask why you were doing so, and your reason of trying getting the heat of Victor would be logical. Because by voting somebody purely by chance you don't have any ulterior motive. But you very possibly have ulterior motive by voting for Salmoneous, an easy lynch victim.

A townie also wouldn't be ok with putting their vote on someone if they didn't think that person was scum. I mean what were you planning all the guys at that time who were voting for Victor to go for Salmoneous? So did you think that Salmoneous was scummy enough to warrant a vote? Either way you answer this question is scummy. (this may be a false dilemma)
If you did think Salmoneous was scummy enough to warrant a vote then why did you give another reason for voting and why have you unvoted.
If you didn't think Salmoneous was scummy enough for a vote then you definately shouldn't have voted form him, neither should your plan of action have been to wait for everybody to pile on him and then take your vote of when things get messy, which is what your plan looks like.
What exactly was your plan?

Grumble. I just explained my reasoning to the Salmoneous vote. I stick by my FoS, though. Salmoneous still stubbornly refuses to accept that there are ways to vote on the first day.
I rather agree with this post to some extent. Salmoneous just needs to step up and discuss rather than hanging on a rather bad day 1 strategy.
Both of these quotes are just very short nutshells of the posts. You don't mention let alone dissect the problems with the arguments in either posts, which seems to suggest you have no problem with them. You don't actually take any new positions, nor is your view on Salmoneous clear to me. Is he scummy?

This all could be way too much hot air from nothing.
I want to hear Budja's opinion, I bet he's scum.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 06, 2009, 00:24:24
Ok. No, I don't actually find Salmoneous scummy. Yes, I feel he's just being stubborn. No, that was not a crude attempt to aggravate a bandwagon. Bah. <_<
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on August 06, 2009, 07:20:29
Bet away, Lunar :P. I am really busy now (back at Uni) and have limited net access for a while.

Quote from: Purple Pinapple
Ok. No, I don't actually find Salmoneous scummy.
Really, after all the FoSes, FoS*2's.

More tomorrow when I have time.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on August 06, 2009, 09:59:18
Victor fails once again to prove his worth.

Quote from: Lunar
Indeed. However, I think we have a hot discussion going on, no need to lynch Victor yet.
QFT

Techno's posting is giving me a good feeling. Now that you have proved you can play, you have no excuse for fluff posting :P.

I greatly dislike Purple's choice of terms, calling his vote a "diversion" sounds especially, even openly scummy.
I also dislike Purple's change of heart on Salmoneous.

Quote from: Lunar
The first choice puts Salmoneous in a dangerous position (aggravating a bandwagon, etc), which you say you had no intention of doing, as you were gonna take your vote off. The second puts no player in a dangerous position.
Agreed, however I don't think Purple Pineapple thought that far ahead.

Overall, I am torn on his scumminess as he seems a little too "open" about it. Calling a vote a diversion doesn't feel like something scum would actually do.

On a side note, Limelemon appears to have vanished.
Come out LimeLemon and give us your views!
Give me a reason to unvote.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: victor12 on August 06, 2009, 11:44:11
DO NOT lynch me. *points to mafia 2*I AM a investigator. AGAIN.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Dataflashsabot on August 06, 2009, 12:13:51
We have no proof of that, and if you were an investigator shouldn't you have been more active and helpful to the town? I'm sorry, but I for one do not believe you. I'm keeping my vote.

And how are previous games relevant? The roles are randomly assigned.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Sabata on August 07, 2009, 02:14:18
Firstly, I apologize for not replying when I came under scrutiny by Lunar_Tick. I'm on vacation.

On myself:
On Sabata:
1.) There's already been, what, 6.5 pages of reasonable discussion? And the first day isn't even over yet!
6.5 pages isn't enough if we are not sure of our target. The mind set of sitting down to the discussion table as if it were a chore is very detrimental and usually brings the mentality of wanting to leave as soon as we've made our decision and as fast as possible.
One doesn't need to be active to play, but one needs to be active to win.
Well, yes, I agree. But I was pointing out that Battlehawk shouldn't be suspicious of Salmoneous just because Salmon thought that he didn't "need to say anything more."

2.) It's already been said many times, in previous mafia games and by other people that the first day can't generate much valuable evidence in weeding out the mafia.
Yes it can. It is just very, very difficult to see it. The first day is the most valuable, one could say. It indirectly affects the rest of the course of the game and the actions during it are far from random.
Whoever we lynch, the behaviour of the mafia N1 and D2 (and by extension the rest of the game) necessarily hinge on D1 actions and lynch, so D1 is, albeit indirectly and invisibly, the most evidence generating day in the game.
D1 also gives us direct evidence, but of course we won't be able to spot it right now. If we stir things up now, we'll be able to look back to D1 when a player starts getting very suspicious indeedums, and see in the D1 posts incriminating evidence in his posts.
Again, I agree. Actually, I'm not sure why I added that. I'm not sure what park of BH's post I was referring to. :huh:

I suppose I'm not very good at wording things. Sorry about that. :/

On Victor12:
I seriously doubt that he's investigator; like DFS said, he hasn't been very helpful to the town, except for provoking conversation.

I vote Victor12.

On everyone else:
The discussion seems to be too much for me to keep track of, especially when I can't check the thread often. Sorry, but I won't be especially helpful for a while. :/
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on August 07, 2009, 05:30:25
Isn't that a little hasty?

Victor's claim was bad and un-needed but voting for a claimed Investigator for a policy lynch is at silly to say the least.
FoS: Sabata, Data
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Razzorman on August 07, 2009, 10:37:21
DO NOT lynch me. *points to mafia 2*I AM a investigator. AGAIN.
Why roleclaim victor? No, seriously, it isn't to an advantage for you regardless of whether you are town or not.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Razzorman on August 07, 2009, 10:40:55
Isn't that a little hasty?

Victor's claim was bad and un-needed but voting for a claimed Investigator for a policy lynch is at silly to say the least.
FoS: Sabata, Data
You have to admit that victors claim was weird, and you yourself has made somewhat of a campaign to vote instead of FOSing to put more pressure on people.
Isn't it a bit hypocritical of you to FOS someone for doing exactly that?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on August 07, 2009, 12:39:20
Yes I do think the claim was a little strange and certainly not helpful but it is in line with victor's behaviour and lynching a claimed cop = bad. We can always lynch him later if we think he is lying (fakeclaiming seems a little unlikely for victor IMO). Killing him now is crazy.

FoSes are not bad. I am sorry if I have given that impression.
FoSes are bad when used instead of a vote like at the start of the game as it makes it hard to create pressure, but are fine for pointing out suspicious things IMO.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Razzorman on August 07, 2009, 13:38:30
I see. I unvote then.

Shawnachu hasn't posted for a while now. Looking back at what he has said, it has always been a short comment agreeing with the majority of the town.
Last time I pointed this out, I also asked him what he thought about salmoneous who also was inactive at the time (he still is, to some degree). Shawnachu only snapped something about salmoneous being the inactive one, and he hasn't said anything since.
Suspicious? I think so.
I vote: Shawnachu, until he explains why he has been inactive. :)
Also, Shawnacu, who are you most suspicois of at the moment?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on August 07, 2009, 14:00:12
You see but do you agree :P? What is your actual opinion of victor's claim?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Razzorman on August 07, 2009, 14:55:23
I don't know what to think really. I mean, claiming that you are the investigator the first day is throughly stupid.
You can't prove it, it doesn't help anyone, and if the down doesn't lynch you in disbelief, the mafia will nightkill you.
The only way you can safely make that claim this early would be that you yourself is mafia, so I think it is a pretty suspicious thing to do.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on August 07, 2009, 19:42:19
Harumph.

Even if Victor is the investigator, will he be of any use (assuming he has the chance to be of use and isn't nightkilled asap)?

I definitely see the logic in not believing Victor. It is surely not crazy to lynch him.

Anyway, I think it is safe to say that Victor is very probably either the investigator or scum.

Assuming we lynch him:
- and he isn't the investigator (therefore probably is mafia): Great gain for town, we also gain great insight into the other mafia member
- and he is the investigator: Loss for town, but perhaps one which would happen either way, as Victor has already rendered himself useless. It is unlikely we will be able to garner information from him as he probably will be killed N1.

Assuming we don't lynch him:
- and he isn't the investigator (therefore probably is mafia): We have a serious issue, as the actions of the real investigator will be seriously hindered, while we are in a deluded state of pandering to mafia interest
- and he is the investigator: Perhaps the same effect as lynching an inactive townie as we probably won't be able to garner any information from him before he is nightkilled. So we will be sacrificing a more active townie today for nothing.

In the short term, it looks like it is in our interests to lynch Victor. And I would not oppose such a movement.
However, if we let Victor live, perhaps there is a more long-term gain. That of controlling the N1 kill? I can see only benefits from knowing who will be sacrificed. And if the mafia try something weird and don't kill Vic N1 we get information D2.
So there's that as well.

So it's a complex issue.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 07, 2009, 20:42:31
Have I unvoted Salmoneous yet? unvote

I suppose with victor's investigator claim, he does become more votable.. FoS: victor12
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 07, 2009, 20:43:08
..I still haven't seen anyone who's actually very suspicious yet, though.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Shawnachu on August 07, 2009, 21:29:05
Vote: victor12
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 07, 2009, 22:18:22
Muahahahaha! All of a sudden, I am the mafia. Muahaha.

vote:victor12
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 07, 2009, 22:21:17
Yeah, ok. That was kind of stupid. Is it too late to unvote?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on August 07, 2009, 23:49:03
Seeing that PP's vote was the hammer (or not?), the lynch should go through. Although some mods explicitly set rules to allow unvoting even after the lynching vote is placed, the default ruleset states to lynch Victor.
Unless of course I miscounted an PP didn't just hammer.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: NESgamer190 on August 08, 2009, 00:47:17
think there's a miscount, as his vote was only 6 of 7.
13 alive, 7 kills.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 08, 2009, 00:59:23
Commence smug face. :^^:
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on August 08, 2009, 02:54:15
If victor is the cop we either lose him or gain an investigation.

If we leave victor alive for a night and then lynch him, we gain a result or a dead mafia neither of which is bad.
If the mafia kill him, it would stop the uncertainty.

I say leave him alive for a night and see what happens.
   -We may even get a valid guilty (very good).
   -Valid innocent (good)
   -Faked result (bad)
If we lynch victor we can then verify the result.

Killing him today gains us little IMO and if he is mafia, the links aren't going to disappear.
   -Links to other mafia in thread (good but the links aren't going to "disappear" if he is not lynched today)
   -Culling of dead weight (decent)

Thoughts?
Also everyone should post their opinion of the claim before anything happens.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: LimeLemon on August 08, 2009, 16:28:49
Also everyone should post their opinion of the claim before anything happens.

That's kinda suspicious, but not enough for a lynch. Everyone who voted victor are stupid, try to find the real mafia instead.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Razzorman on August 08, 2009, 17:30:37
That's kinda suspicious
No its not. Asking people to speak up is nothing but pro town.
The more conversation going on, the likelier it is that the mafia will say something suspicious/illogical that we can use to find them.

Everyone who voted victor are stupid
Mind telling us why we are all flamboyant idiots, and why victor is so obviously town?

try to find the real mafia instead.
As opposed to what? Thats exactly what we have been doing this entire time, and some think victor is the real mafia, or at least not helping the town.
In fact, you aren't helping the town either. You just implied that you know for a fact that victor is not mafia, but you never told us why. Instead you insult everyone who voted victor.

FOS: Limelemon
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: LimeLemon on August 08, 2009, 19:29:45
That's kinda suspicious
No its not. Asking people to speak up is nothing but pro town.
The more conversation going on, the likelier it is that the mafia will say something suspicious/illogical that we can use to find them.

That's a misunderstanding. I was trying to say that victors claim was kinda suspicious, because it was that you asked for.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Bored2death on August 08, 2009, 19:34:38
I was unable to get in this game, but I'd like to join the next one. Here's a message: please be a little quicker. At this rate, we'll have 150 pages by the end, and it will be July.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: LimeLemon on August 08, 2009, 19:40:48
I TOTALLY F-ING AGREE!!!
The first Mafias was the best ones. People voted instead of FoS and there was a 48 hour limit to a day I think. It was fun, back then. It's not fun anymore if you don't speed it up and stop discussing 9000 different things, ask for everyones opinion, and FoS all the time and unvote and even un-FoS I mean SERIOUSLY.
Thank you for reading this crap.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Bored2death on August 08, 2009, 19:44:03
Seriously, I though Mafia would be fun the first time I saw it. After playing Mafia 3 I was like, wow, that's really boring. Course, I died the first day, but still... I've seen other forums where they'll get through an entire night and day in ONE DAY. That's 24 hours, folks. And they do just fine. This isn't a life or death situation. It's for fun. We need to speed these games up.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: NESgamer190 on August 08, 2009, 20:17:36
Okay...  after seeing how long this took, I'm going to have to issue a time limit.
24 hours from today, I'd like a final lynch.  I've made bone headed moves before, but then again, it has been too long since I have hosted mafia, so I hope you won't hate me for the errors I've already made.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Bored2death on August 08, 2009, 20:19:42
I'm not hating you. I'm not even in the game. I just wanted to point something out.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Razzorman on August 08, 2009, 21:18:58
Fine. I unvote, and vote: Victor12.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Shawnachu on August 08, 2009, 21:36:54
That's a lynch.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Lunar_Tick on August 09, 2009, 00:11:18
I TOTALLY F-ING AGREE!!!
The first Mafias was the best ones. People voted instead of FoS and there was a 48 hour limit to a day I think. It was fun, back then. It's not fun anymore if you don't speed it up and stop discussing 9000 different things, ask for everyones opinion, and FoS all the time and unvote and even un-FoS I mean SERIOUSLY.
Thank you for reading this crap.

Host your own game and impose a character limit on posts and a time limit on days. Start a trend.

And another thing (if you get to have your little game-irrelevant hissy-fit I feel I'm completely entitled to my own), you voiced these complaints last game. You didn't seem to find the last one fun at all, and yet you still came back. You know what, if you don't like playing a game you shouldn't sign up for it only to ruin it for the others by being purposely and with malice of forethought, laconic.

All I'm saying is, either solve your problem (which is easy to do) or suck it up, quietly. Complaining repeatedly, stubbornly banging the table and shouting your heart out while doing absolutely nothing about it is not only totally useless for both you and I, but also very irritating.

The game you propose we should revert to is only slightly above a game of chance. I could write it up to personal preference that you're into that kind of game, but I'm not. So go chuck your dice in a different game, or just man up and play.

This "stress" you've claimed that is on you to post is purely imaginary, or at least very very subjective. If you don't like posting often, don't, but be aware of the fact that you may be lynched for it. I think that's pretty simple and logical. You're not required to post in this game, in fact you're not even expected to post. Do as you please.

This could be construed as a personal attack against Limelemon. I regret it if it were, as I wouldn't want to cause forum drama. Anyway, if this discussion does drag on, *looks at Bored2Death* I would appreciate it if it were held in a different thread, as we're supposed to be playing a game.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Budja on August 09, 2009, 02:00:20
Host the next game, create a suitable setup and add timelimits into the rules.
Please don't complain here!

This game started normally and should end normally.

(...and we could have at least waited for more people to comment  :/).
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 09, 2009, 03:52:38
The first Mafias was the best ones. People voted instead of FoS and there was a 48 hour limit to a day I think. It was fun, back then. It's not fun anymore if you don't speed it up and stop discussing 9000 different things, ask for everyones opinion, and FoS all the time and unvote and even un-FoS I mean SERIOUSLY.
And if that isn't suspicious..
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 09, 2009, 03:53:56
Ok. You win. 3 people not voting, 1 vote on everyone but victor, so..

vote: victor12
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: NESgamer190 on August 09, 2009, 04:58:41
Finally, we have a lynch.
And so, after extremely long debate, the town has come to the conclusion to send the guillotine to Victor12, instead of him to the guillotine.
As the blade rose, he had little to mention...  then as the blade did a nose dive, the head flew off...
Victor12, The mafian goon has been slain.  A great blow by the town, which the mafia will want vengence for.
Night one has commenced, and I'll give 3 days from this post at most to give you all a chance to plan things out.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: Razzorman on August 09, 2009, 09:54:43
@Mod. Just a slight request. Could you add a votecount for day one somewhere? It would make things a lot easier if I didn't have to go through all of day one again just to find out who voted for who. :)
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 1
Post by: LimeLemon on August 10, 2009, 00:26:32
Host your own game and impose a character limit on posts and a time limit on days. Start a trend.

And BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.

I actually called dibs on hosting mafia five. Also, I don't care it's night.
Title: Mafia 4 Day 2
Post by: NESgamer190 on August 13, 2009, 15:28:30
And the first night has been finished.
The first investigator attempted to investigate battlehawk, but was blocked.
The second investigator decided to investigate Salmoneous successfully.
The guardian has decided to protect himself.
The mafia have caused a death of Lunar_Tick the townie after a good dropping of one of Dr. C's computers.
An attempt has been made to kill Limelemon, but has failed miserably.
Death row:
Victor 12 [day 1 guillotine as a mafia goon]
Lunar_Tick [Night 1 Computer crushed as townie]
Day two has begun.
Live people:
Salmoneous
Sabata
Shawnachu
Dataflashsabot
Budja
Purple pineapple
Koromi
Limelemon
Technogeek
razzorman
battlehawk
With 11 people alive, 6 votes will give the victim the roulette wheel of doom.

Vital Edit: Time limit:  1 week from the edit.  (check the first page for vote counts from this point forward.  I'll be more vigilant with keepin' track.)
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 13, 2009, 20:05:00
Let me just say..
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Also, I think LimeLemon's the guardian, and therefore not jester.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Dataflashsabot on August 13, 2009, 20:52:03
Hm. After all that, there still doesn't seem much to go on. Salmoneous seems the most suspicious at the moment, mostly due to continued inactivity. I'm gonna FOS:Salmoneous for now. [offtopic]Also, Purple Pineapple, your spoiler doesn't seem to open- I had to quote you to read it.[/offtopic]
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 13, 2009, 20:55:25
[offtopic]Yeah. I dunno why.[/offtopic]
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: LimeLemon on August 13, 2009, 22:12:27
Both I and battlehawk was protected, how could that be?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 13, 2009, 22:14:59
mafia role blocker?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Salmoneous on August 13, 2009, 22:35:28
Salmoneous seems the most suspicious at the moment, mostly due to continued inactivity.[/offtopic]

Am I?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: LimeLemon on August 14, 2009, 01:04:54
No, you're not. There are worse inactives.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Budja on August 14, 2009, 11:04:14
Ok, I am very annoyed by the mod's reveal of all actions.
Mafia (I am assuming they have a roleblocker as in previous mafia's) probably know of one investigator and Limelemon is likely the Guardian, whatever that means exactly.

(Please make a two-week deadline! I am sure we can lynch earlier but deadline lynches are bad and much more activity is needed.)

More in an hour or so.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Budja on August 14, 2009, 11:38:37
Ok, anti-town roles have not been displayed but all town seem to have been. (guess)

Quote from: mod
The first investigator attempted to investigate battlehawk, but was blocked.
(Mafia prob know who it is!)
Quote from: mod
The guardian has decided to protect himself.
An attempt has been made to kill Limelemon, but has failed miserably.

Limelemon is the guardian (doctor, I assume) or a has some nightkill immunity.

A SK exist I assume as all pro-town actions appear to be revealed.

Two investigators explains why victor had so few people believing or even neutral to his claim. I will analyse the victor wagon properly soon. Out of those who opposed it (I did, I know :P), I am reasonably sure we can find mafia.

On a hunch for now.
vote: Purple Pineapple
He apologised to me for defending victor and I feel this is quite odd. Did anyone else get a simular message?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: NESgamer190 on August 14, 2009, 15:22:46
Seeing how pitifully I failed, I guess this game's over.
I thought I could pull it off, but in the end, failed like a blob of waste.  X(
I guess this is the end of my nifforum life.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Dataflashsabot on August 14, 2009, 15:37:21
...what now?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Shawnachu on August 14, 2009, 20:07:13
Well now we start a new game. Presumably with Limelemon leading.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Salmoneous on August 14, 2009, 21:40:34
If we have a new game I think it should be old mafia without all the new roles and that. Like the first mafia we had with Nifflas as a GM.

Edit: Just so you all know, I was a citizen.

Seeing how pitifully I failed, I guess this game's over.
I thought I could pull it off, but in the end, failed like a blob of waste.  X(
I guess this is the end of my nifforum life.

Only you are being hard on youself. This didn't fail at all.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Dataflashsabot on August 14, 2009, 22:13:42
Well, roles like investigator and doctor are good. And I liked the idea of Masons (two Citizens who know each other to be innocent and can talk to each other at night) from the Mafias on the old forum.

I was an investigator, the one who investigated Salmoneous- and I got a 'guilty' result.

Explain please?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Razzorman on August 14, 2009, 22:19:16
I was an investigator, the one who investigated Salmoneous- and I got a 'guilty' result.

Explain please?
Maybe he is lying in case the game goes on.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Dataflashsabot on August 14, 2009, 22:31:31
I don't think there's any chance of that. NES left and he didn't hand the game over to anybody, so now nobody knows who anybody is and any attempt to resume it would only result in disorder. Even if a new mod decides to take it over, and asks everyone to PM him what their roles were, people will probably decide that they were in fact doctors / roleblockers / investigators. (Well, they probably wouldn't, to be fair to everyone, but it's too much of a possibility.) Hopefully a new one will start soon, though :)
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Salmoneous on August 14, 2009, 23:01:13
I was an investigator, the one who investigated Salmoneous- and I got a 'guilty' result.

That's weird.

Here is the pm I received from NES
Quote
You are a typical townie.
All you can do is vote and hope you hang the mafia.  Victory is yours when all threats to town are gone.

Why would I lie when the game is over?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Dataflashsabot on August 14, 2009, 23:09:20
Strange. Maybe NES just messed up the investigation? Eh well.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 15, 2009, 01:06:42
On a hunch for now.
vote: Purple Pineapple
He apologised to me for defending victor and I feel this is quite odd. Did anyone else get a simular message?
Nope. And I don't blame you for voting me. I'd find myself quite suspicious now, aswell.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 15, 2009, 01:09:34
I was an investigator, the one who investigated Salmoneous- and I got a 'guilty' result.

That's weird.

Here is the pm I received from NES
Quote
You are a typical townie.
All you can do is vote and hope you hang the mafia.  Victory is yours when all threats to town are gone.

Why would I lie when the game is over?
This post just made me think of something. What with the night-time phone calls, everyone could just PM their role assignments from NES to each other. Whomever refused or sent a different town PM would obviously have a special role.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Budja on August 15, 2009, 02:39:15
You have got to be kidding me  >(.
Well, now that people are posting role PM's, the game is pretty much unsalvagable to me

Data is probably a paranoid cop, one who gets a guilty on innocents.

Ok, NES you did screw up a bit but it happens, don't be too hard on yourself please.

Things I think you should not do as mod:

 - Post all night actions: Seriously don't, you won't believe how much that helps the mafia.
 - The 1-week day deadline. You shouldn't have changed the rules for this part way through. Unless the setup had more town PR's, it is massively in the mafia's favour.
 - If you use roles which are not played here, please say so. Thats why a used a semi-open setup with a list of all possible roles so those unsure of many mafia roles don't get confused.

Quote from: Purple
This post just made me think of something. What with the night-time phone calls, everyone could just PM their role assignments from NES to each other. Whomever refused or sent a different town PM would obviously have a special role.
Hence the rule against quoting mod PM's, nighttalk isn't really good unless it is a specific part of a role anyway.

Something that might interest you. The mafia were allowed full day-talk and we used it. If the game continued I am pretty sure we would have won.
http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/uh2B6V28rLE
 (http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/uh2B6V28rLE)
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Sabata on August 15, 2009, 03:37:58
I sort of figured that my post would have shown who I was.

Oh well. :/
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Shawnachu on August 15, 2009, 04:19:01
I was the Jester. It's a really confusing role. :/

...I was actively being inactive.  :crazy:
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Budja on August 15, 2009, 04:26:31
Wait.. there actually was a Jester?!

Town never had a chance :P.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Razzorman on August 15, 2009, 10:36:44
I was the Jester. It's a really confusing role. :/

...I was actively being inactive.  :crazy:
Well, you fooled me. :D
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: LimeLemon on August 15, 2009, 14:47:32
Well... I guess this is the end of Mafia 4?
If you agree I will host the next one. Suggestions would be good.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Dataflashsabot on August 15, 2009, 16:12:25
Masons? And some of the old Mafias had an 'anonymous messages' thing- anybody could PM the mod with a message and the mod would post it publicly without mentioning who wrote it. Kind of the equivalent of leaving an anonymous note in the town square or something. Could be useful for investigators (and, of course, Mafia) to leave tip-offs.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Budja on August 15, 2009, 16:16:39
And some of the old Mafias had an 'anonymous messages' thing- anybody could PM the mod with a message and the mod would post it publicly without mentioning who wrote it. Kind of the equivalent of leaving an anonymous note in the town square or something. Could be useful for investigators (and, of course, Mafia) to leave tip-offs.
If cops can claim there targets without revealing themselves it makes them a lot more powerful.

My advice, be clear on your rules, don't overcomplicate things and remember the players will exploit any advantage they can find.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 15, 2009, 18:40:55
Wow.. this game went down all of a sudden. Next mafia game: Maybe one or two extra roles, but nothing seriously insane like ultimate mafia/serial killer/role blocker/investigator/guard person.

I was serial killer by the way.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Dataflashsabot on August 15, 2009, 20:46:25
How about a Schizophrenic? They pick one player to 'target' each month, and will randomly protect that player, inspect that player, kill that player, or do nothing.

Also, if there's more than one cop/investigator, one could be insane (gets innocent results on Mafia and guilty results on town, but can still be helpful if he can realize this (I realize that due to the Salmoneous mixup, I may have been insane this round)).
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Salmoneous on August 15, 2009, 20:51:04
LimeLemon, do it like it was first without all these new things. With the new things it gets unbalanced and all that.

I also think its best if everyone can pm everyone during all time.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: LimeLemon on August 15, 2009, 21:02:53
Please continue the discussion in the new thread I created.
http://nifflas.ni2.se/forum/index.php?topic=1572.0
I would also appreciate if you re-post what you already said.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Lunar_Tick on August 16, 2009, 18:45:30
I know I'll be a douche for saying it, but my plan as of N1 was a PP lynch with a major inquiry into Budja and the probably  Budja lynch D2. Koromi was completely off my radar though.
Well played all, although I would've predicted a probable mafia win due to hugely publicized information, Budja's influential and reasoned position and Koromi's off-the-radar-ness.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 16, 2009, 21:46:13
I know I'll be a douche for saying it, but my plan as of N1 was a PP lynch with a major inquiry into Budja and the probably  Budja lynch D2. Koromi was completely off my radar though.
I knew I was attracting too much attention. (-:
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Bored2death on August 16, 2009, 22:06:02
What were all the roles, anyway?
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Budja on August 17, 2009, 02:22:08
Yeah, I overdid my defence of victor a bit. I thought you would be onto me after that.
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 17, 2009, 07:30:59
Yeah, I overdid my defence of victor a bit. I thought you would be onto me after that.
It's the mafia paranoia! :ohnoes:
Title: Re: Mafia 4 day 2
Post by: Budja on August 18, 2009, 07:18:21
I expected more people to defend him. They didn't (or not very hard).