Nifflas' Support Forum
Level Editing Support => Knytt Stories Level Editing Support => Knytt Stories - Custom Content => Topic started by: egomassive on June 03, 2010, 16:44:49
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I hate these vines. I want an organic source of light for these tunnels, but this wont do. It's become an obstacle to any progress on the level it's for. I can't get past it. Any ideas to improve or replace them would be appreciated.
Edit June 3, 2010, 8:45 PM: Changed sample picture to full resolution, added second sample picture.
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We can't even tell how they look unless you give us a screenshot that isn't blurred.
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Maybe make them a little shorter...?
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(http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3471.0;attach=4184;image)
:) The green and blue hues stick out too much form the background, which is the exact opposite colors of the cave. Might wanna stick to a blue and underwater theme, or a damp cave. It would look so much cooler :) Also the rocks stick out too much. Might wanna make it discreet or it would kinda ruin the focus of the lights. Though its a good thing if you want people to look around the screen! :D
Or try to cool down the temperature :):
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2qdsadc.jpg)
see? it fits more! :D It creates a mood to it too! :D if you really wanna go advanced try adding some stuff on the tiles:
lighting is a good way to blend things! :D
(http://i50.tinypic.com/xmqpz4.jpg)
Sorry I had to edit it, I just really wanted to show you :(
I hope you're not mad :(
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@Minmay: Full size screen shots now available.
@Pumpkin: Simple but likely effective idea. If I make them shorter I think I'd need to add a bottom growing version for larger tunnels. This will probably be part of the solution.
@Evil: A lot of ideas here. First, I know the colors are a little intense. The whole level is that way. I'm not going for realistic so much as rich. I expanded the first screen to give a better feel of how this area works with the world at large. For more screens see my collaboration topic (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=2876.msg33177#msg33177).
@Evil more: Second, I do have a glow behind the vines. It's not very intense. You can see it better in the second screen shot I added. If I make it any brighter I don't think it would work as well on the black background.
@Evil more: Overall, what I think you're getting at is the vines just don't look like they belong in this enviroment; Wrong color, too saturated, too bright, but the glow is too dim on the background.
OK. I think I'll try darkening the background a little, and adjusting the color and length of the vines. Please keep the criticism coming. I'd also like to hear ideas of what else I could add to the tunnels. They're soft burrows dug into the soil, home to rabbits and salamanders up top, mysterious and dark down deep.
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I tried my best :)
(http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3471.0;attach=4196;image)
this looks awesome! :D
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Evil, I appreciate your thoughts. Everything you mentioned are things I've contemplated myself, but it's helpful to hear what others think. I realized I knew things about the level that you didn't, and that's why I added the extra imagery.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure the problem here is that they just don't fit in. You'd need a different color entirely and probably a different texture.
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I think evil's look really good. Minmay does have a point about them not fitting in though, perhaps a bluer or more white, but not necessarily brighter... Hmmm.
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What about coloring the vines with a brownish shade of green while leaving the bulb just as it is now? I think it would look better than an entirely blue vine and it'd fit better with the background.
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Thanks for all the help everyone. I'm not saying this is the final product, but it's heading in a better direction.
Edit: @Vegetal G: The vines are a brownish green, but you can't tell because the glow is layered on top of them.
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why don't you put a nice warm yellowish glow instead of cold blueish? :sad:
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Even if I can't really tell the new color, the contrast between the vines and the glowing bulbs is stronger now. The original vines were a little too bright. They look nicer now :)
As for the color of the glow, I think blue is fine. A yellow glow wouldn't feel right, unless it was coming from a torch or some other "warm" light source.
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True.
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Aw so very nice actually got me happy to see it. Happy tileset I hope you make a very nice level with it.
Why not try to color the top of the vines same color as tileset. Might become nice :)
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The glow is greenish blue because naturally phosphorescent plants and amoeba here on Earth tend to glow that way. Juni's world doesn't necessarily have to be like Earth, but all the areas I've slated for this level are based on Earthly environments. That said the lighting helps create a mood as does the music. I'll have to see what kind of music I get from my collaborators before I make a final decision.
This picture experiments with a orange-yellow glow. Sorry, but I tested rocks on the red soil which will make comparisons more difficult. I intensified the glow because this color blends in with the background better. By the way, none of the screen shots I've released for the level are intended to be in the level. They were made to test the tilesets. This screen is primarily a test of transitions from brown to red soil.
Edit: @Salmoneous: I can't base the colors of the objects on the color of the soil, because I have two soil colors and the objects have to work with both. I'm glad my screen shots made you happy. If the level turns out as well as I plan, you shouldn't be disappointed.
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That image looks blurred again...
Anyway, the flowers themselves don't seem to contrast as badly with the ground anymore, but I'm not really sure about the yellow glow as opposed to cyan. I have no idea what colors might work better, though.
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The yellow looks much warmer, more welcoming. Is that what you are going for in your level?
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@Minmay: The blur is from antialiasing on the vines coupled with the intensified glow. That's how it would look in game. These vines are rough drafts. I plan to eliminate or reduce the antialiasing in the final cut.
@Pumpkin: I intend to go with the green glow, but I may change it to match the music. I'm trying to get all original tracks for the game. Depending on what people make I'm going to adapt the level to fit the music. The size of an area, the attitudes of NPCs; these are the types of things I'll alter to match the music. I start by releasing a screen shot. Then, hopefully, a musician will be inspired by it and create a song. As we both work on our parts, we give each other updates. In the end the music and the level should work together like... well... like they were made for each other.
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I like the cyan. It feels more realistic than the sunlight-yellow.
Great natural ground by the way. I'm glad to see tilesets going in this direction.
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The way the edges of the ground seem to fade into the background also make it look blurry.
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Maybe the areas where the edge of the tileset is flat could be a little different. Everything looks natural until you get to the flats, then there is a fairly regular lego effect.
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Making sure that Juni can run, climb, slide, etc. without snags is top priority. She is very particular about the size of curves she'll run over. And the smoothness of walls she'll climb. I could do a little more to erode the straight edges in this set, but I'm happy with them.
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I looked through your vine pics again just now. Are you satisfied with them yet? I think the smaller ones are an improvement simply because when you have the long ones they stand out too much. But, if you had a combination of thin and big bunches, like a moss or tangle of vines, I think the originals could work.
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I planned to have non-glowing vines and tangles of vines from the start, but there isn't a lot of room left in these tilesets. Between the 2 sets I have 34 ground tile in each color, 28 invisible ground tiles, 65 shadow tiles, 34 glow tiles, 15 background tiles in each color, 8 rocks, 8 vines, and 2 solid black tiles. That leaves me with 7 and 10 tiles for everything else. I'm not sure it's enough.
I was very unhappy with the original vines, and wasn't going to put anymore effort in to them until I consulted the forum. I'm not completely happy with the new vines but I'm satisfied with the direction they're taking me. I would love the glowing vines to be part of a tangled mass of vines as you suggest. I want the cavern to be full of life: worms, grubs, roots, vines, mushrooms, rabbits, etc. I'm sure it will get there. It just takes time.
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You might have to have a 3rd set you use alternately to create areas with more vines and life and less of... whatever you would have to cut out.
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I'm soooo glad you brought me back to this thread, because I just found the solution! Its a bit ridiculous, but if I upgrade to 4 tilesets I can free up 17 more tiles for each color without sacrificing any versatility. Lovely.
My level design plan, is to have a base tileset for each area that can transition with any other area. Then, I make a filler tileset for enriching an area once inside. The red dirt is on my filler tileset, but I wanted to be able to use it as a base set as well. The solution is giving both colors base set treatment, and then making a filler set for each. I might be able to make just one filler set for both. I won't know until I try it.
Thanks.