Nifflas' Support Forum
General => About Nifflas' Website and Forum => Topic started by: by22dgb on September 27, 2009, 06:09:20
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since my poor English, i don't think i can say too much things without fault.
i wish my title tell everything.i search many boards and don't find an answer.....
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Never. When knyttlevels's remake is complete, it will be torn down. Sorry to disappoint you.
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First, welcome! :awsum:
Second, as PurplePineapple said, it'll be torn down when KnyttLevels (http://www.knyttlevels.com/) is re-made. LPChip is currently in the process of upgrading it into what the Temporary Board does now, and more. I think there was going to be comment capability, ratings, and a whole bunch of other stuff.
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Thank you Purple Pineapple and Pumpkinbot.You just do great help to me.
So...How long it may take for the process?I just can't wait to see the changes in knyttLevels..
People around me don't even know this game.What they like to play is Warcraft 3.It's a good game,anyway.But I like KS more.
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It'll be gone when KnyttLevels is finished - but KnyttLevels will never be finished. It is essentially permanent.
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but KnyttLevels will never be finished.
I must say that is the general attitude of the forum, considering LPChip won't even give us a progress report.
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And with reactions like this, motivation to actually finish it become less and less.
Really makes me wonder why I put so much energy in a project if it isn't being appreciated anyway.
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People need to take in account that LPChip doesn't have to do this for us. I wouldn't blame him for quitting working on it just because a lot of people aren't respecting his time or effort. (In contrast the same people who complain about it now are the ones who'd complain because he stopped for 'no reason at all') Sorry if this seems harsh to anyone, but honestly, LPChip is human too, and just because he isn't getting it done when YOU think it should be doesn't warrent everyone to bash him with words like 'It needs to be done now' 'It's not going to get done, forget it', etc.
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I don't really care if it gets finished or not. What bugs me is the whole curtain of secrecy around the project.
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And by saying you don't care you are effectively are saying LPChip is wasting his time. That's how I and I'm sure he would see it as. Also, it's not a secret, LPChip simply wants to spend more time doing it than explaining it.
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And by saying you don't care you are effectively are saying LPChip is wasting his time.
Well..
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And by saying you don't care you are effectively are saying LPChip is wasting his time.
Well..
If you work on a project without giving any public evidence of progress, regardless of how much work you've put into it, you can't expect everyone to act like you're doing something fantastic.
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And by saying you don't care you are effectively are saying LPChip is wasting his time.
Well..
If you work on a project without giving any public evidence of progress, regardless of how much work you've put into it, you can't expect everyone to act like you're doing something fantastic.
LPChip, might I suggest a thread for your progress in a blog-like style? :awsum:
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LPChip, might I suggest a thread for your progress in a blog-like style? :awsum:
I second that. While I trust that you are working on it, it's hard to remember that when I have no idea how much progress there's been.
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LPChip, might I suggest a thread for your progress in a blog-like style? :awsum:
I second that. While I trust that you are working on it, it's hard to remember that when I have no idea how much progress there's been.
I remember you said you didn't want any ideas from other members, LPChip, right? If so, it's as simple as ignoring them. ;)
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Ok, this is ridiculous. LPChip is doing something out of the good of his heart, and it is really going to be awesome. Let's just leave it alone, and let it surprise us all when (or if, now that certain forum members are not really being all that encouraging, and are demanding details) it comes out. LPChip, you've been doing great, and I really appreciate it. However, if you don't think that you're being appreciated enough, I totally understand. We have a knytt levels archive, which works well enough, at least for now, so this isn't totally necessary, though I would be eternally grateful to you if you did finish it. In fact, I think that if he feels up to completing it, then everyone on this forum owes him a :hiddenstar:. That is all I have to say on the matter.
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Ok, this is ridiculous. LPChip is doing something out of the good of his heart, and it is really going to be awesome. Let's just leave it alone, and let it surprise us all when (or if, now that certain forum members are not really being all that encouraging, and are demanding details) it comes out. LPChip, you've been doing great, and I really appreciate it. However, if you don't think that you're being appreciated enough, I totally understand. We have a knytt levels archive, which works well enough, at least for now, so this isn't totally necessary, though I would be eternally grateful to you if you did finish it. In fact, I think that if he feels up to completing it, then everyone on this forum owes him a :hiddenstar:. That is all I have to say on the matter.
I appreciate what he's doing. And I'm not saying he should take suggestions, either. (On the contrary, I say he ignore them.) I'm just saying that, since we don't see or hear anything about his progress, everyone's saying, "OMFG When will you be done?!?! D:", which, as LPChip said, is unmotivating him (is that even a word?). If LPChip makes that thread, then he can post his progress and we could say, "Yay, LPChip!" like what we did when the forum broke.
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Since when has LPChip allowed public opinion to sway his actions so heavily? Very few people stated that they would prefer the level archive to the forum. There was, in fact, considerable protest to it (a lot of it from me, admittedly). But LPChip went on with it anyway.
According to his statements, first he would give it a level of functionality equivalent to what it already has, then he would release it to the public, then start adding things like comments, searches, et al.
That was in February.
If he has something to show after more than half a year of work, then perhaps he should show it - but he isn't, so either he hasn't been working on it at all, or, more likely, he isn't so uncertain about the project that he requires constant "cheering on" from the forum members.
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If he has something to show after more than half a year of work, then perhaps he should show it - but he isn't, so either he hasn't been working on it at all, or, more likely, he isn't so uncertain about the project that he requires constant "cheering on" from the forum members.
I don't think anyone's actually expressed the idea that he requires said cheering on. However, I think--and please correct me if I'm wrong here, LPChip, since I can't read your mind--that it would help him a lot more to have that cheering on, instead of "GAWD HURRY UP BLAAH!" I don't feel the latter, but I've seen quite a bit of it--a bit too much, in my opinion. :/
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I believe I already said this, but I'll do it again.
I have bought a house, and that takes all my time. I also have a full job so working on my house is already quite some work, that I'm doing for a month now (actually 2 months, as the whole process of buying it took me alot of time too), and I'm not even finished there either. So, yeah... I did put the project on hold a little bit, simply because I have other things that are more important. I haven't abandoned it yet, but it certainly makes it harder to work on it, if a topic appears that literally says: this will never finish. Cus if people think that, it wouldn't hurt, if I just dropped the project and have less concern on my mind.
I'm also in another project, and thats an overhaul of modplug. I have put that project on hold for much longer and I wouldn't mind working on that too. So yeah... It'll be done when it'll be done.
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Is there no one who can help you? Who you can offload some of the work to?
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I believe I already said this, but I'll do it again.
I have bought a house, and that takes all my time. I also have a full job so working on my house is already quite some work, that I'm doing for a month now (actually 2 months, as the whole process of buying it took me alot of time too), and I'm not even finished there either. So, yeah... I did put the project on hold a little bit, simply because I have other things that are more important. I haven't abandoned it yet, but it certainly makes it harder to work on it, if a topic appears that literally says: this will never finish. Cus if people think that, it wouldn't hurt, if I just dropped the project and have less concern on my mind.
I'm also in another project, and thats an overhaul of modplug. I have put that project on hold for much longer and I wouldn't mind working on that too. So yeah... It'll be done when it'll be done.
You forgot that you also are administrating the forum. X)
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Indeed... Busy me.
J offered to help me, but in order for him to help me, he has to understand the system as I already made it thus far. In order for him to understand it, I have to make an UML chart. I already started making one and am quite progressed in that, but unluckily time hasn't permitted me to work on that either.
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So yeah... It'll be done when it'll be done.
Just take your time and then surprise us ;) .
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OK..I just feel I post a wrong topic...
If anyone felt annoying with my post,I must regret that.
It's not what I wanted.
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No worries - it's just happens to be a touchy subject. :)
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Its not your question that got me upset, it are the responses that came from it.
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Personally I believe that LPChip is doing a great job with what he's doing. Taking into consideration that he's moved house, and is working on other projects as well as a full-time job, its just great that he's still working on something like that. So everyone, leave LP alone, he can do WITHOUT all of us going on about it (admittedly i did ask when it would be finished myself, but that's not the point).
Cuedos for taking on the project, and I'm happy to wait for as long as it takes to finish. I give LP a :hiddenstar: for his work so far. Great Job!
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Thanks. :)
I'll do my best.
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indeed. keep it up LP.
the KS community is kind of at a flatline. needs some CPR, the new site might just do the trick. :D
that and the release of NG
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I give LP a :hiddenstar: for his work so far. Great Job!
You've seen his work? :O
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Yes, just look at the forum.
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I believe LPChip will make it in the end.It's just a matter of time.
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Seriously. LP has a life outside of Knytt Stories. Give him time. Granted, I WOULD like to see a progress report, but that's just for assurances that he's still working on it.
I'm patient, LP. You get your real-life ducks in a row first, then worry about KnyttLevels. It's better that way for you.
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I will, don't worry. :)
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That said, I WOULD like a progress report, if you can make one, please. :)
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Progress report: I'm working on it.
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That's not much of a report. How much have you done? How much is left? When will it be done?
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Am I the only one who sees that this topic going in circles?
PersonA: When will it be done?
LPChip: When it's done.
PersonB: That's not good enough
LPChip: Well it's going to have to be.
PersonC: I support you LPChip, but a progress report would be nice.
LPChip: Thanks, but it'll be done when it's done.
>Repeat to line 1 or 3.
So either my logic is really off here (possible) or this topic isn't getting any new information out. (not even mentioning the fact this has been offtopic since the third reply or so)
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You're certainly not the only one. I know people are excited at the prospect of an updated knyttlevels but this is getting silly. There's a perfectly functional interim solution and LPchip has said repeatedly that it's not abandoned, he's simply very busy.
Were I in his position I would've trashed the project out of frustration at the endless hassle already <_<
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Besides, making time estimates in software development is really hard, spare time notwithstanding.
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and any guess on how long left would be wrong (most likely):
1 week remaining...2 weeks remaining...3 days remaining...(you get the idea)
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Besides, making time estimates in software development is really hard, spare time notwithstanding.
I second that. I keep saying to myself (looking at the tasks I need to do and the spare time I can use) that KSDS will be finished in the last week of this year, but there are a lot of hidden bugs and optimizations waiting for me :/ .
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Am I the only one who sees that this topic going in circles?
PersonA: When will it be done?
LPChip: When it's done.
PersonB: That's not good enough
LPChip: Well it's going to have to be.
PersonC: I support you LPChip, but a progress report would be nice.
LPChip: Thanks, but it'll be done when it's done.
>Repeat to line 1 or 3.
So either my logic is really off here (possible) or this topic isn't getting any new information out. (not even mentioning the fact this has been offtopic since the third reply or so)
You forgot a necropost. That usually happens before the cycle starts again at Person A.
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If you want an estimation, here is one: It will be done between one day from now and 55 years from now. ;)
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Now LP has set himself a deadline. :shifty:
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If you want an estimation, here is one: It will be done between one day from now and 55 years from now. ;)
Cute. But with all the whiners screaming at you, I can forgive that. :P
I understand that you're insanely busy, but what I'd like to know is how far along things have come since you got sidetracked. What sort of specifics have already been completed, what's still being worked on, that sort of thing. I'm not asking for much, and I'm trying to be civil about asking for it. I don't want a deadline, just what's been finished so far. Please? :)
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LPChip should put a countdown to 2064 on the front page, like he did with Saira! :P
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LPChip should put a countdown to 2064 on the front page, like he did with Saira! :P
I can see it now: 54 years, 51 weeks, 05 days, 19:35:01 until Knyttlevels is released! X)
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I dont think LPchip would be motivated enough to stay in the forum for 50 years :(
And nifflas has to retire sometime :( thats the time where the forum crumbles
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I dont think LPchip would be motivated enough to stay in the forum for 50 years :(
I think he is dead in 50 years. no, just jkng. :)
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XD
woah, that's a pretty accurate estimate on your behalf, LP! (j/k obviously...)
Just LEAVE LP ALONE, K! the more you speculate on how long it's going to take, the more time LP uses replying to your posts. Just leave him alone to do what he needs/wants to do. Unless he WANTS us to.....which i don't think he does.
EDIT:
I just realised how hipocritical I sounded just then XD
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Naw. Let people talk. Its not like its doing any harm anyways.
Responding to our posts isn't going to delay the release of knyttlevels with more than a couple of minutes, and seriously, what does a few minutes matter after 55 years? :P
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Naw. Let people talk. Its not like its doing any harm anyways.
Responding to our posts isn't going to delay the release of knyttlevels with more than a couple of minutes, and seriously, what does a few minutes matter after 55 years? :P
I'd say sure, if the discussion had actually made any progress. The real progress ended several months ago. Now we're just continuing in circles of asking LPChip to make an estimate on when he's done. Let the man be.
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I think it's funny that some of you are acting like it's a bad thing to ask that.
LPChip, why won't you give us any information about this? It's not a secret project in any way so what do you have to hide? Tell me that. We have the right to know, you make it for us. We have waited for this now in such a time and you can't show any compassion in that. At least give a propper answer then just "it's done when it's done." That is not acceptable and not an answer, it's a punch in the face.
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He hasn't posted any info because he doesn't have the time to do so, and because he doesn't want a deadline.
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that is no excuse. Don't be ridiculous.
Edit: oh man, my above post sounded way to mean and serious, it's not a big deal really.
(so what if I have some mood-shifts.)
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Wow. This thread is almost completely offtopic, considering we never will get any information regarding knyttlevels until it's done. But it can't be locked either because it's ontopic. :D
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The only reason why I refuse to give out any info is for the following reasons:
I do not have much control over the amount of time I can spend working on the system, so planning an estimated time is nearly impossible for me. If I tell the progress I have made, people will simply (its how a human mind works) try to do the calculation themselves. They will obviously fail and then feel disappointed. They'll feel as if I had let them down and didn't met their expectations.
I know for a fact that I cannot work on the system as much as I want to, and even when I know how much work I have left before I can even release a beta, I also know that it is very likely that this changes due to getting into unforeseen problems. (yes, have had a few of them already)
So you may ask: but why won't I reveal what I already made? Well, its for the same reason. If you know what has been made, you will guess what work I have left and you will also guess that it takes x amount of time. For the rest, see the first sentences of this post.
I only assure you that I work on this project whenever time allows me. The project is big, and I plan to release an early beta with at least some functionality but not everything so people can start posting their levels while I continue to build on the system. When that'll happen, some day.
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I completely understand your logic, but I don't think you're giving us all enough credit. Showing us even the smallest bit of progress would help the mature members here be MORE patient with you, if you ask me. The idiots who do what you're saying they will can just be ignored or have their posting privileges taken away.
Still, I understand where you're coming from on this.
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Showing us even the smallest bit of progress would help the mature members here be MORE patient with you, if you ask me.
I'd argue that the 'mature' members here should be mature enough to be patient. :^^: If you still can't wait, just forget about it and accept the fact it won't be done soon enough for you and move on.
As an aside:
I was interested in the project and thought about rehosting my old levels on the new archive once it was done, and didn't anticipate such a long delay, but I'm not disappointed myself. I just think that maybe this transitory state is affecting KS level making in some way; but it could also be fatigue (KS has had a long run after all), which the eventual archive redesign would do nothing about. With this I don't mean the project is useless, though.
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I just think that maybe this transitory state is affecting KS level making in some way; but it could also be fatigue (KS has had a long run after all), which the eventual archive redesign would do nothing about. With this I don't mean the project is useless, though.
Yup, the KS level repository will be not useless, people have to download their KSDS levels somewhere.
:P
(OK, sorry for the hijack, back to design CO objects... :/ )
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Sorry to bring up the old topic, especially since it had a bit of unpleasantness going on... but I think this is the right place to bring up the issue I have in mind.
Since the new version of knyttlevels.com is a long-term project, and yet new levels appear frequently, perhaps a notice about the forum could be added to the current version of knyttlevels.com? For instance, on the "upload a level" page. Something along the lines of "you're welcome to post about your level at the forum". Because new levels appear there that never appear here, people creating levels do not receive feedback, the KS community is getting smaller, etc. Perhaps some of the people who create levels may simply be unaware of the forum? The name "Support forum", as it is called, doesn't suggest "Custom levels discussion forum".
Just a thought.
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I agree with yohji, with a name like "Support Forum", you'd think it's only meant for troubleshooting, level editing questions etc. and not posting about levels. Maybe it should be renamed to Nifforum, as most people on here call it. [/hinthint]