Nifflas' Support Forum
Level Editing Support => Knytt Stories Level Editing Support => Knytt Stories - Custom Content => Topic started by: Headgrinder on May 15, 2010, 21:15:39
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Ok, I've finally finished my updates to my smooth stone tilesets. I got the shadows looking better, and I redeveloped the black outlines so that they are easier and more flexible to work with. (Wow, is that all? I can't believe how long it took to do just that :/)
The new version of Stone Tiers is here:
http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=3199.0 (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=3199.0)
I'm going to go ahead and make them public domain. I just ask you give me credit and ask me first. I just want to know who is using my stuff.
If you would like a modification, ask me to do it. I'm possessive. :) Plus, I've got a template made that can put out a color and texture variation on the stones in a minute or two. The trees and bushes take a little longer, but I've got methods developed that will keep it quick.
So please enjoy. I'm excited to see what you guys make with it.
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Here is a quick screen shot:
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GROOVY
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Well, yes. Curvy.
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Everything's good except the outlines. They're downright messy and unpleasant.
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Whow, wow, what now? That is the harshest criticism I've gotten... cool! I'm not sure I know how to change it though without anti-aliasing, which would not look right with the rest of the knytt stories graphics. Any suggestions? There are a few spots where I let the black outline double up, but I thought it simply added a random edge so the line isn't your standard uniform row of pixels. Should it be a uniform row of pixels?
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Yes; the jaggedly outlined curves are indeed messy.
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I don't see the problem with using anti-aliased borders, but if you don't like that... what about changing the color of the borders? You could use a darker shade of the color of each stone.
You could also try making the borders a bit thicker, though I don't think this would look as good as the first method.
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I'll see what I can do, but do keep in mind that when they are used in a level, they will not have a blazing white background (or at least I won't use one) so the jagged edge won't be quite as noticeable.
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Don't get me wrong, I think the tileset looks mighty fine the way it is now. Stone Tiers is one of the prettiest levels I ever played :) It was just a suggestion to make the borders less noticeable. I did a quick test replacing the black borders of the sample screenshot with brown ones and I thought it looked pretty good.
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Whow, wow, what now? That is the harshest criticism I've gotten... cool!
Ha, really? Don't take this the wrong way, but you probably haven't been criticised very much :P
Anyway, which side of this rock looks better? The left side is yours, the right is yours with smooth outlines.
(http://www.cowmuffins.net/stuff/rock.png)
If you want jagged edges, you need to make them a little more jagged and use antialiasing (not necessarily with transparency, but certainly with the nearby colors).
(unrelated: "public domain" does not mean what you think it means. a public domain tileset would be one for which no credit or permission whatsoever is required, and that could be modified in any way while still giving no credit. beethoven's music, for example, is public domain. most of kevin macleod's music, on the other hand, is under a creative commons license, but is not public domain: you are violating the license terms if you use or modify it without giving credit. your tileset is neither, since you say you do not allow modifications or use without permission.)
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Anyway, which side of this rock looks better? The left side is yours, the right is yours with smooth outlines.
[img]http://www.cowmuffins.net/stuff/rock.png[/img]
Hey, your picture 404'ed.
In my opinion though, black borders should never be more than one pixel thick.
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I've been experimenting. 1 pixel width looks crappy because as a long curve transitions from horizontal to vertical, the transitions end up looking too flat when only using 1 pixel. I've also tried a quick experiment with a heavy use of antialiasing using transparencies, and it is just a mess to work with. My next experiment will be to turn one of the two doubled up pixels 50% transparent and see how that looks.
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Hey, your picture 404'ed.
Should be there again now. No idea why it disappeared.
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minmay's side looks better, but the shape of the outline could stand a revamp, particularly in the parts where the little segment things get longer then shorter then longer; I'll circle them if I was unclear or nobody can otherwise find them without my help. Also, Headgrinder, if "the transitions look too flat", you're probably not approaching their construction correctly; may I advise looking at a pixel art tutorial?
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Long gentle curves are just hard to make look smooth. Some curves work, some don't. I usually resort to anti-aliasing.
Stone Tiers was a beautiful level. The graphical style was refreshing. Most levels, even custom graphics levels, adhere to strict 24 by 24 pixel architecture. Unfortunately, our Juni doesn't navigate curves all that well, and the objects can't handle them at all. But still, it's nice to get away from the blocky landscapes sometimes.
I think you should release your set for public use. Asking permission to use it isn't a big deal, but it is a small deal. A new and unsure level designer may just opt for default tiles leaving your beautiful tiles unused and forgotten. If you love something, set if free.
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Oh, there IS an image in minmay's post. :crazy: Guess I should pay more attention to my own freekin threads.
Yeah, the problem is, as egomassive said, there doesn't seem to be a good way of doing it. For simplicity purposes, I've decided not to go with transparent or antialiasing, and the method I am settling on actually looks a lot like yours, minmay. It seems I have to go with those "parts where the little segment things get longer then shorter then longer" because otherwise the outline is polygonal rather than round. It does look rough, but I can't find a better solution and want this tileset done so I can move on to the other 3 tilesets I've been planning out... wait, I forgot one. 4 tilesets.
As for my snafu on the public use issue... well, I'm not sure yet. I realize I'm being a little possessive, and I'm not sure why. I think for now I'll keep it "ask permission" at least for now. After all, if someone is new to Knytt stories, I'm not sure they should be messing with smooth stone tileset quite yet anyway. I find it takes a bit more planning and rework than the standard tilesets.
Anyhow, thank you all very much for the comments. 8)
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Ok, I've got the black lines smoothed out, but they really bug me for some reason. They just look too smooth, too nicely polished... too computer rendered maybe. I can't quite figure out what it is, but comments would help I think. Maybe there is nothing wrong with them and my perfectionism is getting to me. I'll just post the screen shots for now and see what you think.
These screen shots illustrate that the "smooth stones" can actually be rather sharp and cave like too. C)p
Also, I'm experimenting with a new bush builder. My old one has some minor conflicts that bug me. Eventually I'll be using something like this for a giant tree builder I'm working on. I really like using modular designs rather than a tree that must be used the exact same way every time. The old bush design is on the left for comparison.
Thanks for any input guys.
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Loved the level, love this tileset. Awesome job! I do agree with minmay on the outlines, but not enough to dislike the tileset.
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I prefer the old trees. Repetition is more obvious with the new brush. The edges of the foliage look like they were cut out of the pattern with scissors. Makes it look flat despite the texture in the pattern. I suggest restricting big highlights to the top edge, and make them relate to the edge. The same goes for the shading at the bottom. In the middle I'd fill with a much less pronounced pattern. If you look at the Forest Thin tileset by Fredrik Andersson (appears in Riku Island level by Kohdi) The interior is just a solid color, but it works. Plus, The splotchy coloring on the old brush was a better match for the simple highlighting/shading on the ground tiles.